"They don't like it up 'em!"

[Julian2]

Lance-Corporal Jack Jones of Dad's Army will be turning in is grave!

US army drops bayonet training as tactics change

 

IT was a decisive weapon on America's Civil War battlefields, crucial for US troops going over the top of the Flanders trenches in World War One, carried on to the beaches of Normandy in 1944 and used in hand-to-hand combat in the jungles of Vietnam.

 

Despite such faithful service, however, the US Army has called time on the bayonet by scrapping basic infantry training with a weapon that has become part of army folklore since its introduction to military arsenals in the 16th century.

 

Although American soldiers do not generally go into battle with bayonets fixed to their M16 or M4 rifles - unlike their British counterparts with their SA80s - bayonet drills have been a vital part of training for decades.

 

Now they are being scrapped as part of the first major revamp of the army training regime in three decades.

 

Bayonet charges are no longer regarded as relevant in the modern battlefield and the US Army has decided to switch its training to other forms of close-quarter combat - and to teach troops to improvise weapons from whatever is at hand, including lumps of wood or stones. It has also begun to use alternatives to the attached bayonet, including a five-shot, bolt-action shotgun underslung from an assault rifle.

 

Link

[doxx]

A good and logical decision. They should drop airplane "dog fight" training next, or better still: drop manned fighter jets althogether.

 

 

[USVirgin]

Like their counterparts in the British Army, American military trainers are discovering that recruits are often overweight and unfit, and time has to be spent on building up their muscle strength to help them to carry heavy packs and body armour or to haul a comrade out of a burning vehicle.

 

Kind of scary. I used to think the terms 'young' and 'fit' were nearly synonymous.

[Flashermac]

<< It was a decisive weapon on America's Civil War battlefields ... used hand-to-hand combat in the jungles of Vietnam. >>

 

 

Bullshit by a reporter who couldn't tell a bayonet from a basinette. Very few bayonet casualties are recorded from the WBTS. One side usually broke and ran before actual hand to hand combat began. WWI trench warfare was different - and suicidal. Most GIs in RVN weren't even issued a bayonet.

 

We used bayonets mainly to probe for mines. I found an old Belgian-made machette in RVN and honed it to a razor edge. I carried that to use if it came down to being overrun and hand to hand fighting. Better than any dull bayonet on an M16 that might break in two if you gave someone a buttstroke with it.

 

As to physical fitness, when I was an Army instructor in the 1990s I head a lot of complaints about "Nintendo soldiers". Seems kids nowadays grow up in front of computers "exercising" mostly with a joy stick. Not many go outside and run around. Some high schools don't even require 4 years of PE anymore. (My nephew only had to take one. I even had to take two semesters at my university.) Basic Combat Training has had to be changed to reflect this and try to get recruits into shape in a hurry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cavanami]

We went to the sand dunes in Michigan and ran up/down them all summer and then a bunch enlisted...we were green but fit and mean!!!

[Julian2]

I thought... "sand dunes? Michigan? But it's an inland state...".

 

Then I realised there's a bit of a lake there.

[unit731]

<< It was a decisive weapon on America's Civil War battlefields ... used hand-to-hand combat in the jungles of Vietnam. >>

 

 

As to physical fitness, when I was an Army instructor in the 1990s I head a lot of complaints about "Nintendo soldiers". Seems kids nowadays grow up in front of computers "exercising" mostly with a joy stick. Not many go outside and run around. Some high schools don't even require 4 years of PE anymore. (My nephew only had to take one. I even had to take two semesters at my university.) Basic Combat Training has had to be changed to reflect this and try to get recruits into shape in a hurry.

 

 

 

Yes, sadly PE is almost absent from some of these schools today. The students are taking way too much time preparing for the 'tests' that GW mandated - No Child Left Behind - or whatever it was called. No time for PE.

 

And the elected school board officials don't seem to place much emphasis on PE either. And those idiots couldn't tell the difference between a curling stone and a shot put.

 

Now . . . where did I put that honing stone? I need to sharpen my Kbar. And don't you people be deleterious or I may just take it out of it's sheath!

[Flashermac]

I put a razor edge on my M14 bayonet at Dak To. Then I got told it was a no-no. Bayonets were supposed to be as dull as a butter knife. I think the idea was to stab somebody and give him blood poisoning. Later, I had one of the 6 or 8 M16 bayonets in my company. When I was issued it, I asked "why me?" The supply sergeant said, "You got here first and I have to give them to somebody." I got there first so I'd get a halfway decent M16. I grabbed a Colt! Most guys got rifles made by Singer, Quaker Oats, Mattell or whatever.

 

 

[dave32]

I understand that the M-16s then had a lot of issues in the jungle and required heavy maintenance (in other words, they kinda sucked)>?

 

On fitness - @ Basic/Infantry training at Ft Benning saw several people wash out due to weight problems. There was one guy, Nate, who was a little chunky but loved the military. This guy would write 'Ranger' all over his notebooks and shit and WANTED to be there. (Unlike me, best description: detached and curious). He also had a good sense of humor and was universally liked, even by the Drills. Hell, even I liked his corny ass (didn't at first). Nate hung in there and lost a lot of weight by the time we finished infantry school -- but still was a bit chunky.

 

Babbling aren't I? Lets see if I can get to the point.

 

Next stop, Airborne school. Nate is there, in my chalk. Ran 5 miles every day. On the last day of the first week we do a longer run at a faster pace. 8-9minute mile, which is hard to keep up for long distance. Anyway, Nate is suffering and starting to fall back. If you drop out of this run you flunk the entire course and they segregate you into a group with other wash-outs where you're given menial tasks for a few days then sent elsewhere. I know Nate is horrified of the humiliation of this.

 

Still about a mile left and he pukes a little, then looks at me and says 'help.' I'm not fucking kidding. I grab his arm and drag him along. "It's gonna be alright." The NCO black-hats see this and don't say anything, but one of the officers drops back - "what are you two, fucking faggots?" then to me - "let him go soldier." Had no choice. Nate fell out to the side and was scooped up with a handful of others.

 

At the time I thought it was stupid and cruel. But later on, it made sense.

[ThaiHome]

Never went to infantry training, but when I went to basic in 1972 we had about 2 hours of bayonet training. It was pretty much a joke and even the instructors, all Vietnam vets, did not take seriously.

TH