Usa Thread

[Steve]

I used to be staunchly against legalizing illegal immigration. I've changed my tune to a large extent. First, I must say that I think the southern border should be enforced and shame on the Dems for not going along so they can get politcal points. Its tantamount to treason. How can any person NOT be for controling its own borders? Its unpatriotic at best, close to treasonous if you're an elected official sworn to uphold the constitution and sworn to do what's best for America.

I also have a problem with many of the latinos who come. Specifically Mexican Americans. Past immigrants came to America to be Americans. Its hypocritical to come to America and hate on America and claim parts of America belong to your country and be for some sort of 'reconquista' of American territory. The past is the past. Sh*t happens. My ancestors were enslaved. I can't change that. Reparations isn't gonna change that fact. Sh*t happens. I am not bitter about, lets move forward since all of us are 'stuck' here together. So, not saying forget the past but don't harbor it as a reason to hate. Other latinos are good on being American. Nothing wrong with having pride in your ancestoral country. Millions of Irish, Italian Americans, etc. who have been here for over a century have ancestoral pride but they are American first and foremost. I've described it to foreigners on international trips when asked in terms of soccer. Man Utd is your favorite team by far but you have a soft spot for Crystal Palace since your famly is from London. But if the two played you cheer for Man Utd.

Anyway, that said. People say 'well, past immigrants (from Europe) came here legally and so everyone else should' True, very true but lets be truthful. They had no choice. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had Ireland, Italy, and other European immigrants been in Canada and/or Mexico they'd have streamed across the borders in droves. Latinos are no different and lets be real. Immigration is a latino issue. Even thogh there are thousands and thousands of Asians, Eurpoeans and non Latinos who came here on student visas or tourist visas and overstayed it purposely, immigration is seen as a 'Latino' issue. Americans simply don't see non Latino illegal immigrants in the same manner. Boston and NY still have hundreds if not thousands of illegal Irish immigrants. More than a few Russians in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn here illegally as well and many are part of the russian mafia but unfairly Latinos get the brunt of the hate. If you're here, law abiding, have your family here but came here illgally and then f*ck it stay. However, if there are anti-American things in your past, no, f*ck you, go back. Not saying you can't bitch and complain like the rest of us but all of us draw a line with being anti-American. So, that's my overall stance. If any of us were in central america we'd move heaven and earth to come (allthough frankly, I wouldn't these days).

[Flashermac]

If the Southwest had remained part of Mexico, what would have happened to it? It would be like the rest of northern Mexico, and nobody would be eager to move there. The "reconquista" nonsense is exactly that. California had about 20,000 non-wild-Indian inhabitants at the time of the US-Mexican War. One reason the US wanted it was because the British were interested in it! Tucson was the northernmost town in Arizona. The upper Rio Grande area of New Mexico had been settled for several centuries, but that was about it. As one of my history profs put it, "Nature hates a vacuum." Seizing it from Mexico was not right, but after 165 years it is hardly the same place. And what would happened to it if Mexico got it back?

 

It reminds me of the irritation I felt reading in the press about how the UK was "returning Hong Kong" to the People's Republic of China. What Britain took from the Central Kingdom was a rock with a fishing village on it. In return it gave China a thriving, modern city that was an economic power house. Seems like a fair trade off.

...

 

"Los Angeles I first saw in March, 1845. It then had probably 250 people, of whom I recall Don Abel Stearns, John Temple, Captain Alexander Bell, William Wolfskill, Lemuel Carpenter, David W. Alexander; also of Mexicans, Pio Pico (governor), Don Juan Bandini, and others." - John Bidwell, early LA settler

 

 

Los Angeles today has about 4,000,000 people, with another 8,000,000 in the metropolitan area.

[gobbledonk]

Meanwhile, in Utah:

 

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/18557630/girl-dies-freak-trampoline/

 

I'm no mormon, but if that doesnt qualify as an act of God, I dont know what does. Tough break.

[unit731]

"Through his friend and fellow empire dreamer, Secretary of War Jefferson Davis. Gadsden was appointed U.S. Minister to Mexico by President Franklin Pierce with instructions of his own design to buy from Mexico enough territory for a railroad to the Gulf of California. It was a perfect setup. By the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, signed February 2, 1848, at the close of the Mexican War, the Republic of Mexico was compelled to abandon its claim to Texas and to cede to the United States the territory now comprising most of New Mexico, Arizona, California, Colorado, Utah and Nevada. The territory ceded to the United States by Mexico constituted about 200,000 square miles or two-fifths of all her territory. In return for this vast territory, the United States gave $15,000,000 and assumed responsibility for paying $3,000,000 in claims of American citizens against the Mexican Government. A large body of public opinion in the United States had opposed the war against Mexico and felt that the Southern republic had been treated badly. The territory desired by Gadsden and his group was then a sort of no man's land, experiencing frequent Indian raids. The United States wanted to make certain "boundary adjustments"; Mexico needed money and wanted a settlement of her Indian claims against the United States; and Gadsden and his friends wanted a route for their railroad. In 1852 Gadsden agreed to pay Santa Anna $10,000,000 for a strip of territory south of the Gila River and lying in what is now southwestern New Mexico and southern Arizona. Many Americans were not especially proud of the Guadalupe-Hidalgo Treaty and considered the price of the Gadsden Purchase as "conscience money." The Gadsden Purchase has an area of 45,535 square miles and is almost as large as Pennsylvania.

 

 

This tract of nearly 30,000,000 acres cost Uncle Sam about thirty-three cents an acre.

 

The deal was so unpopular in Mexico that Santa Anna was unseated as dictator and banished. Gadsden was recalled as Minister to Mexico for mixing in Mexican politics and domestic affairs and did not live to see the Southern Pacific Railroad built through his purchase. When the inhabitants of Arizona asked Congress for a Territorial government in 1854, one of the names suggested for the new Territory was Gadsonia, a Latin adaptation of the surname of James Gadsden."

 

LINK

[Flashermac]

I used to live in the Gadsden Purchase. Santa Ana was really largely to blame for the whole mess, including the Texas Revolution and the Mexican War.

 

<< The Plan of Cuernavaca, published on on 25 May 1834, called for repeal of the liberal reforms. On 12 June, Santa Anna dissolved Congress and announced his decision to adopt the Plan of Cuernavaca. Santa Anna formed a new Catholic, centralist, conservative government which replaced the 1824 constitution with the new constitutional document known as the "Siete Leyes" ("The Seven Laws") of 1835. Santa Anna dissolved the Congress and began centralizing power. The regime became a dictatorship backed by the military.

 

Several states openly rebelled against the changes: Coahuila y Tejas (the northern part of which would become the Republic of Texas), San Luis Potosí, Querétaro, Durango, Guanajuato, Michoacán, Yucatán, Jalisco, Nuevo León, Tamaulipas, and Zacatecas. Several of these states formed their own governments: the Republic of the Rio Grande, the Republic of Yucatan, and the Republic of Texas. Only the Texans defeated Santa Anna and retained their independence. Their fierce resistance was possibly fueled by reprisals Santa Anna committed against his defeated enemies.

 

The New York Post editorialized that "had [santa Anna] treated the vanquished with moderation and generosity, it would have been difficult if not impossible to awaken that general sympathy for the people of Texas which now impels so many adventurous and ardent spirits to throng to the aid of their brethren" >>

 

 

<< In 1848, Santa Anna went into exile in Kingston, Jamaica, and two years later, moved to Turbaco, Colombia. In April 1853, he was invited back by rebellious conservatives with whom he succeeded in re-taking the government. This administration was no more successful than his earlier ones. He funneled government funds to his own pockets, sold more territory to the United States (see Gadsden Purchase), and declared himself dictator-for-life with the title "Most Serene Highness". The Plan of Ayutla of 1854 removed Santa Anna from power. >>

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_López_de_Santa_Anna

[Flashermac]

How did I miss this?

 

[unit731]

NSA

The news media would make one think that it is the "government" that is doing all of the "illegal" snooping.

Just ain't so.

 

 

"As Tim Shorrock

pointed out as long ago as 2007 (and reminded us in light of the NSA leaks) “about 70 percent of our national intelligence budgets being spent on the private sector.†The AP reportedTuesday that nearly 500,000 contractors — employees like whistleblower Edward Snowden — have access to the government’s top secret programs.

Of the 4.9 million people with clearance to access “confidential and secret†government information, 1.1 million, or 21 percent, work for outside contractors, according to a report from Clapper’s office. Of the 1.4 million who have the higher “top secret†access, 483,000, or 34 percent, work for contractors.

A number of writers like Shorrock have highlighted in the past week the vast government contracts and huge sums that play a formative part in expanding state surveillance. That point has been well made. What I want to stress here is simply that 500,000 employees is a lot of people — a lot of people with a lot of access. A lot of people, unlike Snowden, who have chosen to march in step."

 

 

LINK

[unit731]

Now it's going to be the Tea Party folks that will kill any chances for the Republicans to gain the White House.

All/most of the candidates now have to lower themselves to the rhetoric of the Tea Party.

And the religious right.

But isn't a large section of the geographic USA red states? One answer: Gerrymandering.

The state legislatures in many states have redrawn the US districts. Only 6 states have an independent commission to draw congressional districts. The rest of the states - it's all politics.

 

LINK

[Flashermac]

Gerrymandering is done by both parties. As you say, all politics.

 

"When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye." - Barry Goldwater, 1994

 

"A few years before his death [Goldwater] went so far as to address establishment Republicans by saying, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

[unit731]