American jailed over comments about king

[Gadfly]

I am not convinced that “enforcement†of the LM laws has spiked, it would seem that more people are pushing the boundaries and are being charged for doing so.

 

It's gone up 1,500% since the Coup. So since the Coup, the increase in people "pushing the boundaries" has been that high? That seems odd and requires an explanation.

 

But even if true, why would there be 1,500% increase in posts pushing and crossing the boundaries? This is an increase in prosecutions. It doesn't sound like it could be chalked up to coincidence.

 

I have seen the posts saying there is a distinction between (a) responsible posts and ( irresponsible posts. Probably true. But shouldn't those decisions be made in the marketplace of ideas rather than overzealous nationalistic cyberscouts?

 

I think Thais are able to make those distinctions on their own, and should be given the opportunity to do so.

 

And for that reason, I really don't see the point of commenting on what an individual person posted or why he or she did it. My issue is with these speech prohibitions generally. The Thai public is smart enough to distinguish responsible from irresponsible content, and don't you think it's a bit condescending to suggest otherwise?

[Flashermac]

 

<< The Thai public is smart enough to distinguish responsible from irresponsible content, and don't you think it's a bit condescending to suggest otherwise? >>

 

Based on decades on living in Thailand, I would say no.

 

 

[ThaiHome]

What I think is happening is that with the growth of the social networks and the internet in general in the last 5 years, you have a large number of middle class, middle aged Thai people now using the internet. These are people steeped in Thai culture and all the hierarchical status that goes with it. They lead fairly insular lives with little interaction with people that will publicly reject or rebel against that culture. These include large numbers of middle and upper levels of the very extensive Thai bureaucracy that enjoy a very comfortable life and are rarely, if ever, confronted with the changes that are going on. Even their own children rarely rebel against them in their presence (though they likely lead a very different life away from home).

 

So these people log on to the internet and start browsing the Thai language sites and they are absolutely shocked at what can find out there. Things they never imagined that people are even thinking, much less would actually write down (or put on a graphic or in a game).

 

So their reaction is to make a complaint to the police. Once the complaint is made, the police are obligated to follow up and since almost all of these postings are anonymous, there is nobody but the webmaster to go after under the computer crimes act. So now, what you have is a large number of LM charges made by ordinary people that are truly offended by what they have found out on the internet.

 

Now along come the political activist that say things they know are against the law and are intentionally either skirting or crossing the line. They too get busted and get lumped in with all the other LM charges and then they scream about freedom of speech and how it is obviously being repressed in Thailand and how it must be the military and the elites fault since it all started since the 2006 coup. This of course, ignores the fact that the growth of the social networks coincides with the time since the coup.

 

Finally, along come the reflexively ethnocentric western liberals, with their natural distaste for the Thai middle/upper class and the hierarchical nature of Thai culture compounded by their ingrained underdog favoritism. They read about the huge increase in LM charges and the carefully crafted opinion pieces by both political activists and paid lobbyists that portray this as some conspiracy of the military and “Amart†to use LM as a political weapon. This fits right into their western egalitarian philosophy and their rejection of that part of Thai culture and they are more then willing to join the chorus. They don’t bother to do any real analysis of the situation; they just take what they are fed by people with an entirely different agenda and run with it.

TH

[Flashermac]

 

 

 

[dave32]

One can draw sides and split hairs all day. One can criticize westerners for not having a true understanding of Thai culture. (Sounds very similar to the culture guardians of Iran).

 

But, what would be nice -- is an acknowledgement that it can be a tool for repression, beyond what are general parameters of acceptability in most places. And there can be negative repercussions to that.

 

The militant defense of it seems counterintuitive to me.

 

But I don't live there either.

[Flashermac]

 

I don't defend it. I simply acknowledge it and respect it. If others want to be martyrs, that's their business. But let them have the decency to admit they knew they were asking for trouble.

 

I go around minefields, not through them.

 

 

[ThaiHome]

I don't defend the LM laws either, I was simply explaining how I see what is going on and how I think LM is being used for political purposes by the very people that are complaining about it being used as a "tool for repression".

 

I was not criticizing westerners either; I was saying why I think they buy into this whole political repression scenario so easily and why they don’t try looking at from a different perspective.

TH

[dave32]

The different perspective thing is very true. My favorite oversimplfied Western misconception is democracy. "Bring democracy and all your problems will go away." But then you look at places like what used to be Yugoslavia, and when they brought a more democratic environment and lifted repression, it was a fucking nightmare.

 

Still though, the concept of powerful political entities that are positioned above criticism or reproach -- that gives one reservation. Yes, we all need a more sophisticated appreciation of cultural and historical nuance.

 

But....

 

Anyway.

 

[Gadfly]

Still though, the concept of powerful political entities that are positioned above criticism or reproach

 

You are absolutely right to be skeptical. And when you start here justificaions that include cliche references to "western liberal bias" to an otherwise rational comment, you should be equally critical.

 

The idea that Thais are not sophisticated or smart enough for open and free discussion (that some higher, more sophesticated elite has "protect them" from certain kinds of political comments), well draw your own conclusions. It's way off base and I am not to go there.

 

Cheeers

[dave32]

btw - I agree with you for the most part.

 

So there's no misunderstanding -- the reference to sophistication applies to outsiders attempting to understand. Eg, me.

 

I'm comfortable with being a product of the West and bringing that perspective. And I don't believe in cultural relativism to the extent that one can't 'judge' other cultures.

 

But, trying to understand them as best possible don't hurt. And Americans are notoriously unsophisticated. See: invasion of Iraq and Donald Rumsfeld foreign policy. Or the comments after any yahoo news article dealing with foreign policy.

Alright - ran that into the ground. Last post on this - I agree with ya on the topic. Mostly. Just seems a fertile area for abuse.