Strike

[Guest]

I believe that trade unions in the past, did play a considerabe part in obtaining better working condtions and pay for workers.

[Specialist]

Yes, they have helped, in some areas, considerably in a few.

 

When I was inpatient at National Jewish Hospital in Denver CO several years ago, my roommate for a day or so was a union guy. We had a long talk, and I came away with considerable respect for his particular union.

 

However, unions were not the reason why the 40-hour work week became standard. Economics were what made it happen, when the early adopters saw their profit margins IMPROVE with the shorter hours. The real problem is that this story is not taught in the schools, with the result that a whole lot of managers believe that the best way to get more profit is to work your employees longer for no extra pay.

 

Jerry Pournelle's wife's father or grandfather (I forget which) was a union organizer on the railroads. His house was dynamited by the Pinkerton goons. I heard that story from Jerry, who heard it from his wife, as part of family history.

[My Penis is hungry]

the 40 hour week has been around since the beginning of the last century in many parts of the world thanks to the unions and workers movements.

Iran in 1916 had strikes, accepted in 1923,

Portugal a result of the 1919 strikes,

Spain after 1919 strikes but first strikes back in 1873,

Canada 1890's following UK, Mexico revolution constitution of 1917 gave workers the right to form unions and strike,

USA - Philidelphia strikes in 1791 for 10 hour week - that's how many years ago? Boston strikes for 8 hour days as early as 1836, followed by 1864 strikes through to 1867 strikes when Grant finally agreed and congress passed the first (and very ineffective) 8 hour law in 1868

USA strikes and labor organizations continued all through the late 18--'s to early 19--'s Ford was the the first company to offer 8 hours I believe in 1918 thereabouts.

Australia 1850's labor orgs striked till the first 8 hour agreements

New Zealand 1840 the same,

 

So you see, unless your a few hundred years old, you really don't know the history of unions and organized labor, anywhere in the world (this isn't a USA debate by the way) and you really don't know USA history.

 

Can I suggest you read Howard Zinn to get an idea of the true history of the USA?

 

For Women's rights, again you are so far from the truth and reality I suggest you do some research.

[Guest]

Howard Zinn had a doctorate which is the highest degree one can attain in the study of history.

 

Good enough for me to accept his version of social events in history. Having published books on the subject and sold countless millions, I think most people would believe he knew little bit about what he was talking about. If you can't rely on historians for factual information on history, who else can you reply on.

[cavanami]

History is written by the victors...

[Flashermac]

"Howard Zinn had a doctorate which is the highest degree one can attain in the study of history."

 

My wife has the highest degree you can attain in education. Believe me, she doesn't know everything. I couldn't afford to get my own PhD, something I've long regretted. (I started but didn't finish, quit to work and never got back to it.) But I've edited numerous doctoral thesis and dissertations. You wouldn't believe how narrow the research is. A PhD will be an expert in one very limited area of a discipline. Other than that, uh-uh.

 

p.s. I remember commenting to my favourite history prof, "I'm about to get my MA and I don't feel like I know anything." He replied, "I got my PhD last year and I don't think I know anything either." (This was at a university rated in the top 50 in the world.)

[Guest]

" Believe me, she doesn't know everything."

 

Nobody does, but i'm sure she knows enough and more than most.

[Flashermac]

<< The Haymarket affair (also known as the Haymarket massacre or Haymarket riot) was the aftermath of a bombing that took place at a labor demonstration on Tuesday May 4, 1886, at Haymarket Square in Chicago. It began as a peaceful rally in support of workers striking for an eight-hour day and in reaction to the killing of several workers the previous day by the police. An unknown person threw a dynamite bomb at police as they acted to disperse the public meeting. The bomb blast and ensuing gunfire resulted in the deaths of seven police officers and at least four civilians; scores of others were wounded.

 

...

 

"No single event has influenced the history of labor in Illinois, the United States, and even the world, more than the Chicago Haymarket Affair. It began with a rally on May 4, 1886, but the consequences are still being felt today. Although the rally is included in American history textbooks, very few present the event accurately or point out its significance," according to labor studies professor William J. Adelman. >>

 

http://en.wikipedia....aymarket_affair

 

 

p.s. I had a neighbour who'd been a union organiser in the 1930s. He told me about the many times he'd been beaten by the company goons. Northern factories had moved their plants to the South in the early 1900s to get away from the unions in New England. Child workers were very common. I did talk to people who had lived through those days.

 

http://en.wikipedia....rs_strike_(1934)