Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alohameansgoodbye

Usa Thread

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, chocolat steve said:

You just described individual and groups who have paid establishment Democrats and Republicans and Trump himself for some/most of that. "establish socialism" is a broad term. Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, property taxes, Pell Grants, unemployment payroll taxes, and a myriad of other things can be defined as 'socialistic'. 

Social security...I and my employer paid in so not socialism! also paid in to Medicare, not socialism. Property taxes, socialism? really???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CS...how many people were killed by Obama drone strikes? how many by President Trump? who's the bad guy, just on these numbers?

Another major campaign promise Obama made was the closure of Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp, which he was unable to accomplish. This has been attributed indirectly to the influence of a deep state. (see Wiki)

President Donald Trump's supporters use the term to refer to allegations that intelligence officers and executive branch officials guide policy through leaking or other internal means.[37][21] According to a July 2017 report by the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, "the Trump administration was being hit by national security leaks 'on a nearly daily basis' and at a far higher rate than its predecessors encountered".[ (Wiki)

you can google and read the rest in Wiki, the many that published books, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2019 at 2:38 AM, cavanami said:

Try again Bubi...

Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. This means that any information it contains at any particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or just plain wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source

 

Just to let you know

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, buffalo_bill said:

 

Just to let you know

but but but you people live and die by wiki 5555

get your own source then....or

What exactly does deep state mean? The deep state, also referred to as a state within a state, is defined as: a network of civil servants, military, intelligence, and/or other administrative agencies within a government working to pursue their own agenda, which may be contrary to that of the electorate and their duly elected officials. The term originated in Turkey and has been used to refer to similar authoritarian regimes around the world.

Most recently, in the US, the term has been characterized by an alleged conspiracy to tilt the 2016 election towards Hillary Clinton, de-legitimize the Trump presidency and impede the policy goals of the administration.

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/reference/examples/examples-of-the-deep-state.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cavanami said:

CS...how many people were killed by Obama drone strikes? how many by President Trump? who's the bad guy, just on these numbers?

Another major campaign promise Obama made was the closure of Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp, which he was unable to accomplish. This has been attributed indirectly to the influence of a deep state. (see Wiki)

President Donald Trump's supporters use the term to refer to allegations that intelligence officers and executive branch officials guide policy through leaking or other internal means.[37][21] According to a July 2017 report by the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, "the Trump administration was being hit by national security leaks 'on a nearly daily basis' and at a far higher rate than its predecessors encountered".[ (Wiki)

you can google and read the rest in Wiki, the many that published books, etc.

Drone strikes. They are both (Obama and Trump) bad guys. Also, Obama was President 8 years, Trump only 3, so of course the numbers vary, but the point is Trump did not stop the type and number of drone strikes. And its not the number of strikes that makes them guilty, just 1 strike knowingly killing women and children or American citizens. 

Obama is a moderate. He campaigned as a progressive but as he was winning primaries he started accepting money from Wall Street and other establishment sources. Obama, like many presidents break promises. Nothing new or novel about that. Not closing Guantanamo or ending both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan isn't the deep state. It's Obama not keeping a promise. 

Trump has leakers because he is doing some unpresidential shit. Simple. Obama is a constitutional law professor. You can catch him doing some thing but breaking the constitution isn't going to be one of them. He had people leaking too but not at the same rate. EVERY president has them. The news has always had 'sources within the White House' that is so common, its now part of journalism. Trump's style of governance is so unique (and you can make your own determination in a good or bad way) that I don't find it abnormal that people, people HE chose to part of his administration, is leaking things. Kelly, his own chief of staff, felt he needed to work for Trump in order to protect the nation. Let that sink in. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cavanami said:

Social security...I and my employer paid in so not socialism! also paid in to Medicare, not socialism. Property taxes, socialism? really???

Those things are normalized to us so they don't feel like it but they are a type of socialistic programs Cav. When FDR initiated some of these things he was accused of that very term as well as communist. You (and your employer) are forced by the government to pay certain things. Before the 1930s other than income tax, you didn't pay anything. Before 1914, you didn't even pay an income tax. 

being forced to pay property taxes is a form of socialism. You buy land, but if you don't pay a tax on it, a tax that must be paid every year, no choice they can take the land that you bought and have a right to do with whatever you use. How can the government force you to pay for private property. In theory you can be forced to pay a tax every year on ANY property you buy, a hammer, a washing machine, etc. Again, because its normalized you don't see it as the state over indulging. 

We live in a mixed economy. Its not a purely capitalistic one. There are all sorts of examples. This is Econ 101. 

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/the-characteristics-of-capitalism-and-socialism-393509

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Social justice is actually injustice. What justice is there about taking money from people who have earned it and giving it to people who have not earned it? You can call it many things but justice it is not.

But it seems the aim of Liberal governments is to take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not earned it

Conservatives don't think the world is perfect but they can happily live with it. A Liberal is a person who is so dissatisfied with the way things naturally are that they are prepared to use force to make people behave in ways that they otherwise would not.

So an essential feature of Liberalism is that they think they have the right to tell other people what to do. They see things in the world that are not ideal and conclude therefore that they have the right to change those things by force. Conservative explanations of why things are not ideal -- and never can be -- fall on deaf ears

I can remember a time many years ago when Liberal parties claimed to  represent the worker. In the case of the U.S. Democrats, that is long gone. Now they want to REFORM the worker. No wonder so many actual working class Americans these days vote Republican. Democrats are the party of the minorities and the smug.

Definition of a Liberal: Someone who wants everything you have...except your job.

Definition of Conservative: "Someone who wants you to keep your hand out of his pocket."

Here are the 10 "cannots"  that Liberal politicians always ignore:

*You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

* You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

* You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.

* You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

* You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

* You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.

* You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

* You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.

* You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.

* And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

According to Economist Ludwig von Mises -- "The champions of socialism call themselves progressives, but they recommend a system which is characterized by rigid observance of routine and by a resistance to every kind of improvement. They call themselves liberals, but they are intent upon abolishing liberty. They call themselves democrats, but they yearn for dictatorship. They call themselves revolutionaries, but they want to make the government omnipotent. They promise the blessings of the Garden of Eden, but they plan to transform the world into a gigantic post office."

Most American liberals don't love America. They strongly dislike it. What they actually love is their own fantasy of what they feel America should become.

The Democratic Party is a strange amalgam of elites, would-be elites and minorities. No wonder their policies are so confused and irrational.

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -- G. Gordon Liddy

"World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis... The doctrines of socialism seethe with contradictions, its theories are at constant odds with its practice, yet due to a powerful instinct these contradictions do not in the least hinder the unending propaganda of socialism. Indeed, no precise, distinct socialism even exists; instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something noble and good, of equality, communal ownership, and justice: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach." -- Solzhenitsyn

The Liberal motto has become: "I love humanity. It's just people I can't stand"

Liberals dislike the world around them and want to change it: the people in it most particularly. Conservatives just want to be left alone to make their own decisions and follow their own values.

The failure of the Soviet experiment has definitely made American Liberals more angry and despairing than ever. The plain failure of what passed for ideas among them has enraged rather than humbled them.

The Liberal hunger for change to the society that they hate leads to a hunger for control over other people. When I watch the current crop of liberal presidential candidates during their presidential debates, it's obvious that they will do and say anything to get that control: "Power at any price". Liberal politicians seek to gain power by deceiving the uninformed with snake-oil promises -- power which they invariably use to destroy. The Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and most recently Venezuela are proof that destruction is a process in which they excel.

Liberals are consistent in their lack of principles. How can they have principles when they believe "there is no such thing as right and wrong"? All they have is postures, pretend-principles that can be changed as easily as one changes one's shirt.

A Liberal assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.

Liberals beliefs are all designed to pander to their ego. So when you have an argument with a Liberal, you are not really discussing the facts. You are threatening their self esteem. Which is why the normal Liberal response to challenge quite often devolves to name calling and verbal abuse.

A quote from the late Dr. Adrian Rogers: "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, cavanami said:

CS.... Your point is??? 

We already have socialism. The degree varies among countries. So, when you say the deep state wants America to bring in socialism its such a broad term, its almost meaningless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cav, EVERY single Republican in the modern area has raised taxes in some form or fashion on the middle and lower classes, left the country more in debt than they found it. Every single one in the modern era have started a war or expanded on the one they inherited. Republicans, conservatives, whatever moniker we want to apply are all about having the government force the people to do things. Pro life is one of them. What happened to personal freedom? The only difference is they don't want the Democrats to use the government to force things they don't believe in but conservatives want the government in our daily lives as well. The Patriot's Act, one of the most misnamed pieces of legislation ever is without question the most intrusive legislation on personal privacy ever. Conservative piece of legislation. Again, for balance, Dems are bad as well. 

The rest of the statement is just opinion and hyperbole. I get it. Its an ideological view. Both sides can make strong cases about the other. 

Tthe conservatives had total control of the government from 2000 to 2006. The White House, majorities in both the House of Representatives and Senate, and the Supreme Court as well. How did that work out? It ended in the country being hair close to a depression and the worse financial crisis since The Great Depression. Kansas and Louisiana tried pure supply side economics. Both experiments ended with both states being mired in debt and unable to sustain itself. 

Every single social movement that is deemed historically as moving the country forward and modern was opposed by the conservatives of the time:

Conservatives opposed ending slavery, were for Jim Crow / segregation, were against the woman's suffrage movement and for women to vote in 1919, were against the Civil Rights Act, were against the women's rights movement in the 1970s, were/are against gay rights. 

How is this conservatism such a good thing again? 

But we are getting away from the original gist of all these posts. Trump. An investigation will either find he has done A impeachable acts or it won't. But to say it shouldn't be investigated is fascist. A sitting Republican member of Congress at the time said he was going to investigate Obama weekly for the whole 40 week session of Congress. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/11/issa-plans-hundreds-of-hearings-044850

So, what I hear from Conservatives its this 'woe is us' when the are in power when they do the same but usually worse. I have my issues with the Democrats and I've stated it on here but its not their party's President making illegal phone calls to the Ukrainian president. And as for Biden, if he has done anything illegal, I'm more than good with that. But do it properly. We have a legal procedure for that. 

Finally, I keep hearing Trump and other Republicans talk about the 'swamp' / deep state and they control the White House, Senate and the Supreme Court and still can't end this 'deep state'. Then they are either grossly incompetent or its bullshit. Either way, they don't deserve the govern if they can't get the job done. 

...and the irony is were you a liberal I could make a similar statement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...