The Underclass Role of Issan People

[bangkokbutcher]

>>>isaarn AND the north!<<<

 

Ooops sorry, I must admit that I did start to speed read after getting about 1/2 way through the thread, it didn't sink in to well about the north, but I agree that they are subject to the same sort of foul banter that the issarns are...

[Guest]

Fly, are you sure that some ordinary farangs aren't seen as having some kind of high status? I'm certainly not wealthy but do dress well and conduct myself according to Thai standards of politeness and have several degrees as well. I was once asked by a wealthy Thai, why would a, quote, "man of my social class" appear in public with a bargirl. This was some years ago but it seemed obvious that the Thai was completely unable to place me socially based on my appearance. I suspect this is true for most of those who don't wander around in bermuda shorts sporting a three day beard. Just an observation, I claim no expertise except personal experience.

Also, a question for you dialect experts...Where does the Chaing Mai dialect fit in the social hierarchy? Is it on the same low scale as Isaan speech patterns? I've noted a distinct difference in the way girls (bargirls) from this region are treated, perhaps because of their lack of dark skin. Comments?

[Brink15]

Racha,

 

I stopped reading this thread after your original post and Fly's and your responses.

 

You are spot on.

 

My wife's family being central Thai and my nearly 10 years experience with Central and Southern Thais I can agree whole heartedly that the Majority of Thais look down on khun lao or Isaan Thais. Hill Tribe people are not even part of the equation but more of an after thought.

 

I don't agree with this assessment of these groups but to disagree that Central Thais see it this way is be deluding yourself.

 

[Guest lazyphil]

Post deleted by pattaya127

[Brink15]

Phil,

 

Exactly!

 

That's what allows you to be friends with a colonial such as myself even if I do piss take on your mushy peas.

[Guest lazyphil]

Reading this makes me realise that despite the short comings of societys like the UK/USA we are far more tolerant of race/class and far more mature about who we make friends with. Most people (not all I grant you) have friends of a wide range of class and race. This aspect of los is stifling and plain fucking ignorant. And I dont give a rats arse if this is all conected some how to their intricate culture blah blah :onfire: , my mrs mum descends from the Mons who ended up round Koh kret, no doubt middle class (ha, what do they really know about class, lords and ladys dont make me laugh!!) Thais have some low opinion about this subset of Thais?

[Brink15]

Phil,

 

I never knew your Missus was descended from the Mons. Now that is truly interesting.

 

They are a group that I've been interested in for quite a while as they preceded the Thais and much of their art and culture was assimilated by the Thais.

 

It was pretty much the Mons and the Khmers when the Tai people showed up in the 14thy century after a major ass kicking by the great Khan.

 

Sorry I just can't help pointing out to my wife that the Thais are not the invincible race they think. Mongolians, Burmese, and Japanese anyone? Not to mention the way they bent themselves into pretzels to appease the Europeans.

 

"Ekaraj ja mai hai krai khomkii." Yeah, whatever it takes to sleep through the night.

 

[Guest]

Fly,

Is your view objective, having a GF from a minority group up North.

 

Thailand is a class society. I think on that we can all agree on.

Thailand is in the top 5, when it comes to income inequality.

Still having lots of money does not automatically elevate your status in Thailand. During the boom, several very poor suddenly became very rich, but it'll take generations for such family to elevate into a higher social status, although with their sudden riches they may be accepted at times.

 

The "high class" Thais can be found all over Thailand. It has little to do with skin color, but more with your ancestors.

You can find M.R.'s and M.L.'s in Bangkok but also in Issarn, or the North. These are all considered high class, even though some may not be very rich. And as you mention somewhere. they are usually not light skinned.

 

 

Its the poor without famous names that are looked down upon, and then there are the diffenreces in regions. The southern Thai look down upon the Issarn, but the Issarn consider southern Thais untrustworthy. Nothern Thais are generally considerd lazy, placing beauty before hard work.

 

Light skin often defines a certain Chinese ancestry (not all Chinese are light skinned though). Light skin does not elevate ones social status, but a lighter skinned Thai woman is considered more beautifull. High class Thais males will not marry because of light skin, but may select a light skin "mia noi".

 

Dark skin is often associated with manual labour, or farm work, people on lower levels of Thai Society. Its for that reason that many middle class Thai women in urban areas try to lighten their skin, in order to try to differentiate themselves from this low class. The true high class usually do not bother with this. Thsi wish to differentiate themselves is probably also the reason than middle class from urban areas appear snobbish.

 

It is indeed the hilltribes, the Khmer, the Burmese minorities and some Chinese minorities that are truly looked down upon.

Another group in Thailand not really fitting into any class, apart from the farang, is the Southern Asian (India etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[My Cow Jai]

QUOTE: "Fly, are you sure that some ordinary farangs aren't seen as having some kind of high status? I'm certainly not wealthy but do dress well and conduct myself according to Thai standards of politeness and have several degrees as well. I was once asked by a wealthy Thai, why would a, quote, "man of my social class" appear in public with a bargirl."

 

You have no status even if you have several degrees, dress well and conduct yourself according to Thai standards of politeness.

 

If you want status as a farang in this country, learn Thai, and learn it very very well. Unless your fluent or at least extremely close to it, you are NOBODY. At best, non-speakers and semi-speakers are still outsiders.

 

In regards of what your Thai friend said by saying QUOTE:"why would a, quote, "man of my social class" appear in public with a bargirl." It is probable he was both being polite and respectful to you, and also actually trying to help you by emphasising the fact that she is an utter bottom-feeder and you seem not to be.

[Brink15]

IMHO you are confusing legal status with social status.

 

Legally as a foreigner you have little in the way of rights.

 

When it comes to social status many Thais defer to Westerners as they envy that which the West possesses. I have experienced this on countless occasions and still do with Thais in the US.

 

Many of my Thai friends here will refer to me as a resource for opinions on that which is good or bad. Although this has gone on for years it still feels very awkward as I often have no more expertise than anyone else yet the perception is still there.

 

A farang friend in Thailand was walking down a road in Phuket many years ago when a Thai offered him a ride in a brand new Sterling car. This Thai then began to regale my friend with his life story. It seems he was one of the chief planners in the highway department throughout Thailand and was very proud of his roads and wanted this farang's validation that he had accomplished something grand.

 

There is also a big difference between deference to a group deemed technologically and financially superior and allowing that same group into your inner circle of friends. That is where your statement about the necessity to learn Thai comes into play. Being a Western foreigner with money and good hygiene may get you deference, but having a desire to learn Thai language and culture will gain you entrance into the Thai heart.