The Underclass Role of Issan People

[zanemay]

It is clear from some of the discussions we have had on this board that the people of Issan are the underclass of Thai society. In America we have lower class blacks, and we can all feel better (especially other black people) knowing that we are not like "those people." You could say that every society needs its "n...rs." (I think this is how most black people I know would put it.)

 

In Thailand, that slot is filled by the people of Issan. Certainly they are almost all "good apples," but there are plenty of visible bad ones. Dark skinned, rough mannered, tending to antisocial and criminal behavior and with speech and language that instantly identifies them. They are discriminated against in the job market and everywhere else. They are not hireable into a good job in BKK.

 

The role of social status is prized, guarded and protected. As someone said in another post, it is the "respectable" wives that most hate the Issan girls.

 

In any society, especially developing ones with a lot of social mobility, there must be ways to display and protect your class status - so many people are moving up financially in Thailand, they need to show that they are not what their parents were and they need to absolutely deny any connection with the lower class. This is tricky if your roots may be among them or if your family was from the lower rungs of BKK or other Thai sociey. Ugly in their methods, there is always a phalanx of old battleaxes on the frontline of that battle. And they stand shoulder to shoulder with successful business men and burecrats. The worst ones always being the ones who are more recently arrived in their status.

 

What really galls these people is when an Issan girl hooks up successfully with a farang. The little "whore," as they see it, takes a big financial leap over the heads of their respectable daughters! It is a social leap too, as she has hooked up with a kind of high-status male.

 

I think a lot of foreigners are not aware of the social structure of Thailand and hook up with Issan girls without knowing how they are seen in wider society. This can lead to big problems. On the other hand, it's no problem for someone like me. I don't work here, I just live quietly on my own. I love Issan girls who are well-mannered, attentive and loving. There are so many real gems. I have no interest in upper class girls I have encountered, who I find snobbish and boring, just as I find upper class farangs. I would a thousand times over prefer to meet a girl from a rice farm in Issan than a city girl casting longing looks at home furnishings in The Emporium.

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Very interesting analysis, every society, indeed every social group, even amoungst friends will have a scape goat.

 

It is an unfortunate human trait that we have to have someone to pummel to make ourself feel better.

 

I have heard Issan people referred to as "idiot Issan" if they do in general behave like idiots then they deserve the reputation, its just unfortunate for those who arent idiots..

 

STH

[Guest]

>>>I think a lot of foreigners are not aware of the social structure of Thailand<<<

 

 

and it appears that you are one of them

 

may i correct you on some blatant mistakes in your post:

 

 

>>>In Thailand, that slot is filled by the people of Issan<<<

 

nops, that slot is filled by the hilltribes, especially the ones without thai ID.

 

 

 

>>>Dark skinned, rough mannered, tending to antisocial and criminal behavior <<<

 

every social group has its share of criminals, people of isaarn may be poor (the north is by the way as poor) but there is no indication that they have any higher tendency towards 'antisocial and criminal behavior'.

the 'crime capitals' of thailand by the way are petchaburi (famous for its gunman) and nakhorn si thammarat, both down south, not isaarn.

 

 

>>>and with speech and language that instantly identifies them<<<

 

and so do people from the northern provinces, the south, and basically every city and province in thailand has it's own dialect.

 

 

 

>>>In any society, especially developing ones with a lot of social mobility, <<<

 

thailand is the exact opposite from a society with a lot of social mobility. most of thailand's problems do result from that.

 

 

 

>>>It is a social leap too, as she has hooked up with a kind of high-status male.<<<

 

a farang is not a "high status" male. at first he is a complete outsider of the thai society and might be able to acchieve some form of half-status during the years he spends here. very selct few farang are high status here in thailand. to be 'high status' you have to have the money as well as the education - if you are not already born into the very upper classes in the west there is nil chance to be able to reach that status here.

 

 

 

 

>>>I would a thousand times over prefer to meet a girl from a rice farm in Issan than a city girl casting longing looks at home furnishings in The Emporium. <<<

 

that is more or less the only comment in your post that i can agree with, but that is just my personal preferrence.

 

 

[racha]

>>>In Thailand, that slot is filled by the people of Issan<<<

nops, that slot is filled by the hilltribes, especially the ones without thai ID.

---

 

The hilltribes sure are treated very bad but they are minority groups that hardly get a mention by most Thai's in everyday conversation, in general its the Issan people that are looked down upon and are the butt of frequent jokes from the general Thai population....

[My Cow Jai]

Interesting post "....As someone said in another post, it is the "respectable" wives that most hate the Issan girls."

 

Hmm, try swapping the word "respectable" for "pretentious", or, "those with pretensions."

 

Real higher class Thai girls have more in common with lower class girls than you may think. They can smoke like troopers, can drink a lot, and frequently talk to anyone without caring too much about whether they will be tarred with the same brush - its the middle and upper middle classes who are unbearably snobby.

 

What really galls these people is when an Issan girl hooks up successfully with a farang. The little "whore," as they see it, takes a big financial leap over the heads of their respectable daughters! It is a social leap too, as she has hooked up with a kind of high-status male.

 

Disagree with this one! She hasn't hooked up with a high-class male! She's hooked up with a stupid kee-nok sokkaprok farang, and they deserve each other! :: Many Thai's totally look down on the farang men that consort with such women, and view such farang men with equal disdain. Many middle class and upper middle class Thais are appalled when/if their precious daughers hook up with normal regular "farangs", let alone the "barbaric farang" characters we see in Pattaya et al.

 

::

[Guest]

being the butt of jokes and the real underdog of the society is a huge difference.

personally i do not understand the preoccupation with the so called 'isaarn - underdog' on the boards and under farang here. maybe it is because the vast majority of bargirls in the western oriented prostitution come from isaarn?

but in reality it does not make one bit of difference here if someone with a funny accent is from isaarn or from the north or the south - they are equally looked down upon by some members of the affluent central thai classes.

isaarn people actually nowadays have many advantages over their northern cousins, first of all in the last twenty odd years a lot more development projects were started in isaarn (one of the reasons might be because in isaarn the communist revolution started and was also the strongest). for example the 'tung na long hai' is not anymore the plain of tears but a rather fertile area. isaarn farmers are a lot more organised than from other areas.

secondly, as every politician knows, the elections are won in isaarn, and you have many powerful politicians from isaarn as well (chavalit for example).

dining isaarn style is always fashionable ... do i need to go on with my list?

 

 

 

>>>The hilltribes sure are treated very bad but they are minority groups that hardly get a mention by most Thai's in everyday conversation<<<

 

have a look into some of the upper middle class houses here and see how many of their maids (often very badly treated) are from those hilltribes.

if you listen in on some conversations here you can find out that most of thailands problems today are blamed on the hilltribe people starting with the illegal logging, AIDS and up to the drugs (there was even that recent disgusting advertisement from karabao for his new energy drink where the 'hero' thai army shoots some hilltribe guys to pieces and of course a big bag of pills falls out of one of the backpacks).

if you look into the really bad brothels than you will find out that the girls in the worst possible situation are the hilltribe girls without thai ID.

i think all that makes the perfect underdog.

[Guest]

>>>- its the middle and upper middle classes who are unbearably snobby.<<<

 

exactly!

 

 

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Very well put, the Karen people also deserve a mention. The situation in some ways is similar to the Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank... chucked out of Burma and not allowed to leave the camps in Thailand...

 

People are born and die within the confines of their prison.. with no work they are easily recruited by the Thai and Burmese military to run and be involved in the drugs trade..

 

 

STH

[Guest]

all of them - karen, muser, karenni, akkha (big time losers), also the hmong from laos.

from pakisthan, india, buthan, nepal, burma, thailand, over to laos, vietnam and china (surprisingly better than many other places now) those people are the big time losers of the asian nationbuilding of the past 50 years. no matter under which system they are fucked everwhere, and most of them in long and absolutely destructive wars, always on the receiving end.

 

the only ones who might have a chance might be the red wa due to their powerful postion. even though they are some of the poorest and most primitive tribes they are the dominant tribe in their area and have an army none fucks with.

[SingaporeSteve]

Zanemay - I have read through your post 3 times but am struggling to get your point. Is it that you want to associatte with Issan Girls in the belief that they have lower expectations than richer, higher class Thais? Im sure there is a hidden meaning somewhere its just I dont understand it ::

 

I have not experienced the kind of treatment that you indicate based on my working in Thailand. In my office, we have umpteen very middle class Thai's all with lots of family wealth. My secretary is fairly new and from Issan, studied at the best University, makes no effort to hide her roots and is a very highly regarded member of our team. I think perception is based on expereince, good or bad. Her English is excellent, her PC skills top rate and her attitude to work a real bonus. All our department heads have stated to me at one time or another that they think she is excellent. For me, I dont care where she comes from, its want she can do that I am interested in (and that does not include the horizontal appraisal )

 

Similar scenario's as you say in every country however my understanding of US friends from big cities is that they tend not to look down on blacks, but to people to come from "hick" towns or States as more of a generalisation. I assume if your black and from a hick town then your done for by your example.

 

In England a city dweller invariably looks down on a guy from a rural community and often you here pot shots being taken about the slow life back home etc but they are generalisations thats all.

 

Cheers