Helping tg into other countries

[SingaporeSteve]

Odd's are she wants to work in either SIN or HKG. Its commonplace but as other people have said, whats in it for you? If she goes into SIN on her own, immigration will likely look at her tickets and give her a 7 or 14 day visa. If she goes in with a farang, they will likely stamp 30 days. IN HKG they can get up to 3 months I think.

 

Personally, I refuse to do it purely becasue its potential trouble for me if something aint right. Odds are the girl knows the form and may have overstayed before. Thats just one example of when u might get into the shit, albeit just as a threat of being detained at the airport. Obviously drugs etc are much more severe and most wont be into that but you never know so why take the risk.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

>>>If I go ahead and do this, am I breaking any thai laws?<<<

 

under circumstances you definately are breaking thai (and singaporean or honkongese laws).

one question: did the girl in question ask you directly or is there a middleman/woman involved.

 

 

 

>>>one has to be a little flexible with the truth though...<<<

 

that is called human trafficing and it does break the law. and don't think that immigration officers and custom officers are stupid. i have been interogated once by some japanese customs officers for over one hour for a very similar thing, just that the person i brought over was irani. and they let us go because they thought we were drugsmugglers, but could not find anything. fortunately they did not look at his passport carefully enough...

 

 

 

>>>I'm sure there are no drugs involved nor fake passport.<<<

 

please explain why you are sure that in this this is not so?

[Guest]

I've been asked by a friend's ex-girlfriend. She's been to Singpore once before and holds a genuine thai passport. From what I know she's not involved in drugs and I've known her for 6 years (my friend even longer).

 

Fredro

 

 

[StoneSoup]

I know about the organized program to move Thai ladies to Korea and Japan, and I have been solicited to work as a paid escort in that traffic (and declined).

 

But - I have also taken different Thai bg girlfriends to both Penang and Singapore, on holiday We stood in lines together, but there was no documented tie-in between us. In neither case were either of us questioned in any way.

 

There was no obligation for us to depart the foreign location together.

 

I doubt that there is any significant risk for you. Worst outcome is that the Thai lady gets refused entry. Bluntly - it is not illegal to take a trip overseas with a Thai companion, or to return to Thailand with one. I cannot even fathom why all the posters on this thread would try to tell you that accompanying a "legal" Thai lady on a flight is illegal.

 

If you were pulled aside for questioning, and you simply told the truth, you have done nothing illegal. Again, fallout here would be you would be admitted alone, and she would be denied entry.

 

All the naysayers here are making a big deal about nothing - unless the girl is in fact illegal - carrying a bomb, or heroin, or a cannister of Cesium 137 - or carrying a fake passport. If security picks up on false documents, or a smuggling operation (or suspected terrorism operation), then you are in trouble regardless of who your companion is - as a conspirator.

 

Thailand and Singapore are both ASEAN member nations, making it easier for citizens to move between member nations. Hong Kong is tougher - the chance of her getting denied entry is higher.

 

I think it is hillarious that posters here immediately jump to the conclusion that the girl must have a fake passport. Illiterate peasants can get a legal passport here easily. Any bg who has her documents, a gram of brain matter, and enough money to pay the agent can get a legal passport in a day or two, from any travel agent.

 

StoneSoup

 

[lopburi3]

I believe it is quite clear the object is to lower immigration profile as she plans to work a trade in one of these countries that is not lawful. He knows this so any act to help her is conspiracy. And that when asked "is she with you" he is expected to say "yes". He knows this and you still think it will not be considered conspiracy?

 

Now, if I travel with someone who requests, who would be high on a terrorist profile if alone, but vouch for him and he does not get the full check what do you think will happen when the shit hits the fan? I would not want to be answering the police in that case. Or even for the transport of a woman; for probably prostitution.

[SingaporeSteve]

StoneSoup, the difference here with your example and the original post is I believe in who initiates the request. Many of my mates have OFFERED to take girls to HKG, SIN, etc while they are on business trips - the girl is along for the ride in more ways than one and it costs the farang basically the air ticket. The Farang gets typically free sex while he is in an expensive country (except of course for the shopping money) and the girl gets to see somewhere that the odds are she has never been to before. The risk in this is minimal to the farang unless he is really unlucky.

 

Many BG's I chat to tell me they have passports but have never been abroad. The odds of a BG employed in a bar or gogo dissapearing I guess is fairly small.

 

If however its someone propositioning you, thats when I would suggest being more careful as the girl probably has done it before, knows the form etc. I know many girls in Singapore who have overstayed and then paid fines when they left SIN. Get back to BKK, go and declare their passport lost and are back on a flight within a matter of days. However the SIN authorities keep a note of all ID card numbers which are in a Thai passport. If the ID card shows that the passenger was previously an overstayer, depending upon how long the overstay, SIN will not let them in. There is even a section on the immigration card asking just that specific question about previous passports and declining to admit before.

 

The semi innocent farang is unlikely to be hassled too much but as with everything in Singapore at least, it will be marked down and noted somewhere. Hope that person doesn't then try and get a job and an employment pass in Singapore. Odds are it will be declined for associating with known illegal activities. Now if you want to burn your bridges with the commercial centre of the region, thats the guys call - but in my opinion its not worth the risk for what is a Bar Girl and ultimately someone who aint going to bring any value in line with the potential risk.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

>>>I think it is hillarious that posters here immediately jump to the conclusion that the girl must have a fake passport. Illiterate peasants can get a legal passport here easily. Any bg who has her documents, a gram of brain matter, and enough money to pay the agent can get a legal passport in a day or two, from any travel agent.<<<

 

 

first of all, no one has mentioned that the girl 'must have a fake passport', but people use fake passports for various reasons.

next situation is drugsmuggling - this business is going on and personally - i do not trust anyone who needs my help to cross a border unless it is my wife.

 

secondly, if she goes to singapore with the intention of working as a prostitute, the accompanying farang will be in conflict with the law.

 

 

[StoneSoup]

Everyone just wait a minute. I know what I am talking about, because I have already done it. Twice. To two different countries. Two different girls.

 

I have entered Singapore with a bg before. Her passport was less than a week old. She had never been out of Thailand before.

 

We had hand-carry luggage, and we had return tickets after a three night stay. I put our hotel name on both entry cards. We walked up to Singapore immigration together. I think we chit-chatted for a minute or two - I think I was about #3 in line. I was ahead of her. My turn. I walk up, hand across my USA passport with green cover (which always got me a lot of attention - in 1993, to celebrate some event, they issued 10,000 passports with green covers). I had I think three passport extensions in the book, with maybe 80 or 90 entries into Singapore. As I recall, I never spoke a word. Handed the passport over, they stamped, and handed it back.

 

I stepped forward past the counter, and waited for gf. As I recall, I think they did ask her how long she was staying. She said three days. They stamped her in, handed her passport, and it was all over.

 

Now, let's go through the nightmare scenario:

 

Immigration: Hello Mr. Stone. Are you traveling alone?

Stone: I'm with my Thai lady friend, there (point).

 

Now - here's what the alarmists think will happen:

 

Immigration - I see. (motions for police to come over). Would you two please go to interrogation room.

 

A few minutes later:

 

Interrogator to Stone: Mr. Stone, you say you are traveling with the Thai lady who is being questioned next door?

 

Stone: Yes.

 

Int: How long have you known her?

 

Stone: 6 years.

 

Int: Are you carrying and drugs or prohibited items?

 

Stone: No

 

Int: Is she?

 

Stone: Not to my knowledge.

 

Int: What is your purpose in coming here?

 

Stone: Visa run - and to look around for the weekend.

 

Int: What about your Thai ladyfriend?

 

Stone: Yes, what about her?

 

Int: Will you be staying and leaving together?

 

Stone: That's the plan, but she may stay longer than me. I have to be back at work next Monday.

 

Int: You aren't by any chance accompanying her just to help her get into Singapore to work as a prostitute at Orchard Towers, are you?

 

Stone: We're friends. She's Thai. We'll probably head over to Orchard Road at some point - I've heard that a lot of Thai's congregate there.

 

Int: That's not what I asked. I basically asked you if you were her pimp.

 

Stone: Well, I'm somewhat offended by your attitude. I told you she was my freind. We have (or have not - whatever the real case) slept together, but that's our private business. I won't ask you about your sex life - please don't ask me about mine.

 

Int: I'm loisng patience - are you a pimp smuggling a prostitute into Singapore or not?

 

Stone: Sorry, no. I'm here on a visa run, and decided to travel with an attractive lady friend who wanted to see Singapore.

 

Int: Did you buy her ticket?

 

Stone: No.

 

Int: Did she pay for it?

 

Stone: I didn't ask - the subject never came up.

 

Int: I think you are lying to me.

 

Stone: About what?

 

Int: I think you are a human trafficker.

 

Stone: You know, I've entered your country "X" times before, and I've never had to put up with insults like this. This is 2003 - SARS year - your goverment is spending countless millions of dollras promoting travel to this island, and now I come here with a friend, and you and your associates treat me like a criminal. What have I done wrong?

 

Int: You are consorting with a known prostitute. We have your friend's ID card number in our computer. She has been arrested here before.

 

Stone: (stunned) Wow. OK, I see. Does that mean you aren't going to let her into the country?

 

Int: That's right.

 

Stone: What about me.

 

Int: You are going directly to jail, for human trafficking.

 

Stone: What? I haven't even entered your country yet.

 

Int: We're going to make an example out of you. You will be shot at sunrise.

 

Stone: Damn - I should have listened to the guys on Nanaplaza.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well, I have trouble seeing that scenario unfold.

 

Oh - and I've also seen Thai girls accompanying farang at entry points into all major capitals in Asia - maybe a total of about 200 cases in 8 years of heavy regional travel (hubbing out of Bangkok). I have never noticed any remarkable activity - or ANY rejections. EVER.

 

Remember - In my post, I said that - if questioned - traveler should tell the truth. As long as you do not play out a long bullshit story - and then get caught with the whole spiel being a lie - then they are unlikely to put you through a Danny Deever drill (Danny Deever). I guess you might be deported back to origin.

 

As far as I know, it is not illegal to be in the company of someone with a past criminal record - especially if you are not aware of it.

 

Oh well, this is probably wasted effort. People who have never done it telling others who have never done it - not to do it.

 

I would NOT suggest taking a paid job to escort a stranger across a border. That is NOT the scenario that the original post painted. I would not be too worried about accompanying a girl headed down to work a few weeks at Orchard Towers.

 

If questioned, be vague, but don't lie. Travel and crossing borders is not illegal. Conspiracy to travel and cross borders is not illegal. Best not to get too involved in discussing what your companion will be doing after you separate. That's her business. If you don;t know, then you are not conspiring to do anything wrong.

 

They do NOT present you with a form that requires you to commit that you will depart with the same companion you arrived with.

[SingaporeSteve]

StoneSoup - Not sure if your reply was aimed at me but I posted that I agree its a negligable risk if the farang offers to someone he knows. Different level of risk if your approached.

 

In the past I have taken girls where I have offered, I decline when I am asked. Just my view based on the risks perceived or otherwise.

 

For a simple BG no issue, no drama at immigration - peace of cake so to speak. Issue is in the history of your companion and the hassle that could occur. Why go through the shit and hassle. Thats just my view.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

>>>Oh well, this is probably wasted effort. People who have never done it telling others who have never done it - not to do it.<<<

 

 

c'mon.

i have traveled with my thai girlfriend all over during the last ten years with her, so i have done it.

i am also one of the few board members who have done the illegal border run (once, not with a thai women, but an irani guy), and i know more than a few people who have made a business out of that. i am hardly a person who has not done anything.

and concerning drugtrade and fake passports, i do know more than a few people who got into prison because of that. one friend of mine is on the run here from the thai police (here in thailand) for a very similar scenario as described in the thread.

how does one know if a girl is using a fake passport if she does not admit it? are you an expert in detecting passports which even fool high tech eqipment? how will you know that a person will carry drugs if she won't let you know that straight away? you carry an x-ray machine or a sniffer dog around?

and by far not all drugtraffickers are involved in drugs themselves (naturally, as a druaddicted wreck would be very easily spotted by the customs).