SingaporeSteve Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Not aimed at anyone in particular but just my thoughts: 1. Consider the sex the girl has had before coming into the work scene - AIDS can take 10 years before it develops fully into visible symptoms. Assume a girl entering the bar trade is likely to have been sexually active BEFORE she came down from the fields. Impossible to qualify for the farang the risk. 2. In MHO, tests undertaken at most bars are not done properly if at all. I have personally had 2 discussions with girls which confirm in my mind at least, that they are a scam. One girl in Pattaya, goes for a monthly checkup, doctor asks if she has had sex without a condomn and does a physical examination. If she says she used condom, no further testing and a stamp in her book to say all clear. Second scenario is a dek serve in gogo in BKK who has HIV and periodically goes with customers. I have no idea how she gets through the tests but I am convinced because a guy I knew 2 years ago paid for her to have a test and she was positive. So was he and he has gone back to the US. He wanted to get her a visa to go back with him. She was not a dek serve then but is now. She does not know that I know and she even propositioned me to take her home one night :: Again, near on impossible for the farang to quantify the risk. The integrity of certain bar owners might also be questioned here. Given that a fair share of them have dubious backgrounds I would have no trust in what they told me considering that for the most part the average bar owner is paying no personal income taxes here in Thailand and is at best a shady part of the establishment, quite content to undertake illegal work. If they can feel comfortable with that scenario and also effectively being a pimp, how the hell could anyone believe that they are shelling out tens of thousands of baht a month to have their girls tested properly. Again, near on impossible for the farang to quantify the risk in determining who are the good owners from the negligent ones. Personally, I tend to think that the rate of infection would be around the 20% mark of girls employed in Gogo's and about 40% for the hardcore freelancer scene around Soi 7 and some of the pool bars. Nothing scientific just an educated guesstimate. Couple of people have commented that transmission from women to men is more difficult than man to women, so there can be occassions when a guy has slept with a HIV positive women without a condom and comes out OK, but its like Russian roulette. You REALLY have no idea. Perhaps thats why the incidence for farang is lower, but just imagine a habitual sanuker that beds say 10 women without a condom and is unknowingly or knowlingly positive - odds are that all or most of those girls will become positive. That in MHO is when the stats get really scary. I remember one Thai girl in Singapore a couple of years telling me she was shit scared of getting AIDS as her brother had died of it a few years before and then pronounced that sex without condom's felt so much better inside her but only with people she trusted and her boyfriend (yes she was playing around when he was away) :: Jesus - this girl had personal experience of the thing and still would go with guys without a condom. Absolutely frightening.... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickbuffalo Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 You may well be right that the number of farangs who catch HIV from BGs is low but the original question was whether the girls had it... From my research for what its worth (probably not much) the principal source of infection for the women is not, as one would expect, from their customers but from their Thai boyfriends with whom they have bareback sex. It may surprise many sanukers, but the vast majority of BGs have Thai BFs, who are often leading high risk lifestyles: mainlining drugs, botty bashing and so forth. In additional many BGs are drugs addicts, something else many farangs are unaware of or unwilling to admit. For this reason there is little difference between the rates of HIV infection among BGs servicing the Thai or farang sex scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 I stand corrected. There are currently 15 Schengen countries. However, visa for stays over 3 months are not Schengen visa's, and are subject to the individual regulations of each countries. For most EU countries (Norway is not an EU member), there is no such thing as a 6 months marriage visa. There is howver as visa that allows the partner entry. The actual temporary residence is given in the country itself, after entry. It is possible that this is done after an initial 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 >>>Schengen visa (which includes Germany) are issued for 10 countries. There is no 6 months visa, but only maximum 3 months (short stay) or longer than 3 months.<<< if i would have meant the schengen visa i would have mentioned it in my posts. i didn't. there are for example 6 months temporary residence visas in germany (my country of origin). not that easy to get, and a bit time consuming the whole process, but we have got it a few years ago. it is in the passport of my missus. and one of the requirements for that visa, not for the schengen visa (which my missus also has in her passport), one needs a health certificate including AIDS test, which in case of germany, has to be performed at the police hospital here. >>>The rejection rate at Schengen Embassies is less than 10 percent, mostly due to financial status of the farang sponsor. So a rejection rate of 30 percent due to HIV infection is just not accurate.<<< and i have not talked about the rejection rate of the schengen visa but the failed health certificate concerning those visas requiring a healthcertificate (which the schengen visa does not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 >>>How did you get this kind of anecdotal data?<<< the behaviour of many friends and acquintances, my own behaviour a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 >>>There is howver as visa that allows the partner entry. The actual temporary residence is given in the country itself, after entry. It is possible that this is done after an initial 6 months.<<< in our case to get the visa to be allowed into germany we had to present the embassy with a healthcertificate (and lots of other papers not needed for the schengenvisa. one of the obligations was that we had to present ourselves within the first week of our stay at the foreigner's registration office. in our case by the it was not for the purpose of marriage (but most people who apply for that visa do that as a marriage visa as otherwise the chances are very slim to get accepted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short-time Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 using a condom made the transfer the least likely and going down on a woman gives one the highest risk. Eating at the Y carries the highest risk? :: This is news to me. Can anyone else confirm this? I?ve never heard of a case where someone caught HIV from eating pussy. I thought the enzymes in saliva were supposed to be a natural enemy to HIV. If this sexual practice has such a high risk, how is it that lesbians have the lowest rate of HIV infection?? This just doesn?t add up. I suppose if the red tide was flowing down there the risk factor might increase substantially, but who the hell?s gonna go down on something like that! ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Approx. figures are 100,000 Thai prostitutes servicing the Falang market, while just under 2 million servicing the Thai market. But more to the point, my last trip, I had Uni FL'er. An angel of a girl, who wanted me to jump on her without a condom. After taking her out a game of pool, and me admonishing her continuously about the dangers of no condom, we went back to room...and it was like I never said a word to her. So sad........I know right now, she is initiating sex without a condom. I have been in the room when bars try to explain the dangers to their workers, during daytime meetings. You can lead a horse to water, but.......... HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Good stuff. Just hope you we're carefull, treated her well & that it wasn't 'my' girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Says HIGH THAIED: Approx. figures are 100,000 Thai prostitutes servicing the Falang market, while just under 2 million servicing the Thai market. >>I suppose a few of us dig into the thai market a bit with our fellow asian sanukers up at the rachadas MP's But more to the point, my last trip, I had Uni FL'er. An angel of a girl, who wanted me to jump on her without a condom. After taking her out a game of pool, and me admonishing her continuously about the dangers of no condom, we went back to room...and it was like I never said a word to her. So sad........I know right now, she is initiating sex without a condom. >>I agree sad, but a tough one to break. I know 'cos I've been smitten quite a few times too many by it & those girls I have been in the room when bars try to explain the dangers to their workers, during daytime meetings. You can lead a horse to water, but.......... >> Just like on this very board. We can preach & preach till we die, but the life's in everybody's own hands... HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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