pattaya127 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 less of an inner life but instead some form of basic security... ----------------------- one does not have to prevent the other. I am proof of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 ...well, i guess you had some slight advantages over some dalit to start with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 To come back to the original question. In Cambodia I had an unpleasant encounter at Angkor Wat with a monk. He started to talk to me and during our conversation it became clear to me that his only interest was to receive money from me. He acted more like a beggar who tried to receive money with a faked? story about his interest and need to learn English. Ok, there is nothing to be said against this, but he was really much pressing for money which gave our talk a very bad taste. Back to hostel I was told that convicted criminals sometimes? have the choice between prison and monkhood. Of course, this does not elevate the level of this "profession" and this guys give the monks a bad reputation Can the same be found in Thailand: criminals turned to monks, by free will or forced? Recently there was a press report that a few hundred day laborers and construction workers obtained false monkhood in Cambodia and then moved illegal to Thailand to stay cheap and secure in temples and work at the same time. This must be known to the temples who houses this people and often they worked for the temples. Of course this are only flash lights and maybe taken out of proportion, but I am wondering if the ordinary Thai people still give the same respect to monks or does anybody see a decline, because the of bad behavoir of some monks and the involvement of some monks in shady business e.g.? :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 yep. It's called accumulated Karma. Wait for the next life, it's only getting better..... Still, India is the perfect example of large number of people who put religion above mere getting by. A life of renunciation is quite a reality there. You would also in time of great famine, have people starving while cows (meat!!!) passed them by. To me, it's the perfect example of country where people can be dirt poor and have an inner life. Who knows, I may have been a starving indian in a previous life, now getting back the dividends...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 >>>A life of renunciation is quite a reality there. <<< and for many of those renunciates it is a rather profitable life. it is not easy to find a real ascet nowadays. >>>of large number of people who put religion above mere getting by.<<< and millions there would rather get by than having to resort to religion. >>>To me, it's the perfect example of country where people can be dirt poor and have an inner life. <<< i think you see india a bit with rose colored glasses. i have done so too for a long time. but after having spent more than two years there in the last 15 years i have a more realistic view on india. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 Thai people still give the same respect to monks or does anybody see a decline -------------------------- From the few stories we hear on the board, it seems that the educated segment of the population is either moving away from Buddhism as a credo you live with daily, and also add a certain cynicism about some monks. If it means a critical the monkhood in general, hard for me to say. On the other end, Some people answer by adhering to a special order or temple or an influential monk, where they feel comfortable or uplifted, without having to approve or disapprove of the state of B. in the whole country. This is a religion/philosophy that encourages a very individual quest more than just following the flow, despite the cultural ubiquity of the common rites and Buddhist holy days . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 16, 2003 Report Share Posted August 16, 2003 and millions there would rather get by than having to resort to religion. ----------------------------- who knows? You seem to expect million indians to have the same frame of mind as you. Too over-simplifying, IMO. i think you see india a bit with rose colored glasses. --------------------------------- :: :: ::. Because people have an inner life or fervent practitionners? You lost me there. If you want to deny that religion looms big in many indians life, free of you. then, explain to me why Pakistan was created. then about the 4 castes (though here, you may have good, rosier news about it). For a beginning..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Getting back to the original question: Are Monks better than others, I think it is much more complex than just a matter of caste as in India. My experience, although at only about ten years and less than many, is that monks are held in esteem for a combination of reasons. First as has already been mentioned they make great sacrifices for enlightenment. Unlike most Thai males who enter the monkhood for three months those who remain are seen as spiritual guides. Monks have also been traditionally responsible for educating the masses prior to the spread of a public school system. Beyond this there is a superstitious belief that some monks are capable of bestowing good luck. And finally there is the aspect of making merit by giving a portion of one's time, money, and food, to the Temple not unlike tithing in the West. I'm pretty surprised that after all your time in Thailand you never experienced the monks eating first thing. I have seen these events dozens of times and accepted this as part tradition and part making merit by deferring their own needs for food to that of the monks. After all Buddha taught that food should be a necessary part of survival and not a point of pleasure. Pleasure of course necessitating the need for pain. Now me not being a Buddhist, I like a good meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted August 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Hi, "I'm pretty surprised that after all your time in Thailand you never experienced the monks eating first thing. " Oh, this certainly wasn't the first time. Just never bothered asking about it before. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 After all Buddha taught that food should be a necessary part of survival and not a point of pleasure. ------------------------ may I just add a small correction. B. does not deny pleasure in one's earthly time, only that it should not be a craving , neither to be lingered on (the great "let go off evrything" Buddhist mantra). In that sense, I doubt he ever said bluntly : " life is suffering", which it is not, on the face of it, ie. 24 hours a day. It is the craving that brings about suffering, and life itself being a craving (to rebirth), he most likely said: "life/craving leads to suffering" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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