loner w/a boner Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Well, I'm about ready to start the job-hunting process. Here's a few questions you may be able to help with. I've read several threads in this section, but haven't found the answers to the following questions: 1. When an employer's job ad includes a phone number, e-mail, and physical address, what is the proper contact procedure? 2. Is it customary to FIRST e-mail (basically a cover letter) asking for an interview time? 3. If so, obviously one would include in the e-mail, their resume (CV--Brits). Is it preferred that the resume be an inline text, a .doc or .pdf attachment? 4. Or, is it preferred that you walk-in with resume in hand without first contacting the employer, or is that a major no-no? 5. Also, would you expect that a walk-in might get an interview that day? (The interviewer's time considerations aside); I'm talking culturally. 6. Regarding the interview. Any "unusual" Thai customs involved? I'll shower first (even though it's only November), dress professionally, etc...of course. But, seriously, I know not to point the bottom of my feet at the interviewer, etc...Is there anything else that comes to mind that isn't common sense in the west? I just want to minimize any stupid mistakes that could cost me a job. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Good questions - I'm very interesting in some insight too :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I think it also has a lot to do with the industry you are in and the level you are participating at, as well as the strucure of the companies you are trying to involve yourself with. So if you are in IT and looking for a middle management position, then the approach would be completely different than mine in an Industry where personal contact between senior level staff is the only way in. I know this probably doesn't help you much, but if you were to be a little more specific about what you are looking for, perhaps others in your field could give you some heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneSoup Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi - I don't know much of anything about you, and I'm tempted to start pouring the icy water down your back...... .... but (as was credited to Wayne Gretzky) "You always miss 100% of the shots you never take." The one comment that I will offer is this: In the culture where you and I grew up, the path to success usually involves selecting an objective, remaining focussed on that goal, not letting yourself get diverted from your objective, and eventually getting there - ah, success!! Thailand (and probably Asia as whole) seems to work along a different paradigm. Here, success doesn't come by moving in straight, direct paths. Here, things work more in circles. So - you still set an objective, and set out toward that goal. But then, you see where the path of fate/destiny/whatever is trying to pull you (which will almost certainly be somewhere other than your predetermined objective). Well - look closely at what opportunities develop away from your intended path, and take them seriously - because in some weird way, unlikely opportunities are likely to eventually lead you back in the direction of your original goal - but on fate's time schedule, not yours. To try to make my statement make sense, I will give you a case study out of my own situation. I came to Thailand as "Asian Technical Manager" (industrial equipment and process technology) for a western company, based in Bangkok as a "hub", and working throughout the region. 20 months later, I more or less got fired (my job poistion was eliminated). I evaluated my prospects for finding a new job here as very poor. So - I started my own company here - mainly as an alternative to being unemployed, and to give me some sort of a basis for continuing my job hunt - but from a "respectable" employed position. I wanted to stay with industrial technology, so I formed a manufacturer's rep firm for industrial equipment and materials. I didn't expect this to be greatly successful - but I figured it would keep me involved with trade shows, Thai industry, and help me grow my local networking (my earlier work had not actually involved much activity with Thai customers). Well, my manufacturer's rep business was a total fiasco - mainly because I didn't understand industrial distribution channels here, and I could not find any resource of consulting service who could help me. I was forced to abandon my planned business. So - I saw the lack of "hnads-on market research" as a gap in the market, and I created the www.thaitradedata.com research service - to help others. Then, to fill in the time available to the people who worked for me in that area, I decided that I could improve upon the manner in which a service company helped me launch my business here - and created www.thaistartup.com. Later, I added www.siamwebsite.com, as a further extension. So - now - 19 months on, I have a self-sustaining business, albeit modest. But - along the way, on the basis of the Thai Trade Data service, I became a subcontractor to another consulting company. Over about 14 months now, this client has given me all sorts of strange work assignments to do - more or less testing me. Well, acouple months ago, I learned that thsi client has another business I didn't know about. He buys and sells companies in Thailand - buying distressed operations (or operations with other unusual situations), fixing them up, and reselling them. So I then learn that after "exercising" me for a year (to figure out what I'm good at) he's now out actively looking for a company to purchase, to put me in charge of. I expect that I will end up working again in some sort of an industrial job - but as the President of the company!!!! All via "the great circle route" - not at all associated with any "grand plan" on my part. The story isn't over yet - and (as I grow older) I'm learning more and more that destinations aren't too important (we're all headed to a pine box, or a funeral pyre) - the jouney itself is the thing. Good luck! StoneSoup www.indo-siam.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 hmm food for though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Excellent post and obsevations. It is probably more common for farangs to end up doing these circles than for them to find a 'regular' job. Here, as much as anywhere, networking is vital, so unless you have been here for a while, the chances of simply arriving and hunting down a job is pretty nigh impossible IME. Worked here for 6 months or a year for an International company and made lots of connections.......well you got a shot at it then. Able to stay here for 6-12 months and find your network ............ well if you are any good at what you do..... something might happen. But coming here or anywhere in Asia and trying to cold call your way into something I think has a huge failure rate. It will frustrate you and burn you out in a short time. Anyway, I am glad things have progressed well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 But coming here or anywhere in Asia and trying to cold call your way into something I think has a huge failure rate. I agree 100%. Nowhere in Asia (Middle East I don't know) does anything work without the right connections. Anybody who wants to work in East (SE) Asia should do this only if he already knows people that can help and assist him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted November 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Says LaoHuLi: I think it also has a lot to do with the industry you are in and the level you are participating at, as well as the strucure of the companies you are trying to involve yourself with. So if you are in IT and looking for a middle management position, then the approach would be completely different than mine in an Industry where personal contact between senior level staff is the only way in. I know this probably doesn't help you much, but if you were to be a little more specific about what you are looking for, perhaps others in your field could give you some heads up. Well, I have undergratuade degrees and experience in both Finance and Business Computer Information Systems. Due to reading of the exasperation of IT people looking for work, I initially concluded that it may be time to switch to teaching English. It is not something I would do lightly. I've done private tutoring in Finance, and one-on-one teaching with inexperienced computer users. Teaching carries with it a great responsibility, and if I ever choose to return to the US, my MIS career might suffer greatly. I will keep up my MIS skills no matter what--even in my own personal time. I did receive some encouragement from someone on this board regarding IT employment. I have decided to look further into the possibility of working in that field. I've also been reading extensively from Bangkok Phil's monthly English teaching posts, ajarn interviews, and Stickman, etc...This is really a huge decision. Sure it can be reversed; I can always return to my earlier vocations, but if I go forward with teaching, I'll certainly pursue certifications in short order. I'm not a trained teacher, but am really hungry to learn. My research this week has pretty much told me what I wanted to know...it all depends. Some employers specifically request an e-mail with resume, others strongly suggest hand-delivery (my preference too). And as far as networking and contacts go...forgetting career for a moment; I need a "farang fix" anyway. Would be nice to make friends (my username aside). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted November 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Thank you for your advice. I honestly believe that Thailand is full of opportunities for everyone, farangs included. Perhaps with open eyes and an open mind, several new opportunities will soon present themselves. It sounds like the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well in you, and you've branched out in ways you never thought possible. I have several possibilites I'm looking into--most in the longer run. I'm surprised how "at home" I feel, being a newbie to Thailand. Currently I'm focussing on the foundation of a steady income. Thank you for your encouragement. I do truly appreciate it. Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Says loner w/a boner: 1. When an employer's job ad includes a phone number, e-mail, and physical address, what is the proper contact procedure? 2. Is it customary to FIRST e-mail (basically a cover letter) asking for an interview time? 3. If so, obviously one would include in the e-mail, their resume (CV--Brits). Is it preferred that the resume be an inline text, a .doc or .pdf attachment? 4. Or, is it preferred that you walk-in with resume in hand without first contacting the employer, or is that a major no-no? 5. Also, would you expect that a walk-in might get an interview that day? (The interviewer's time considerations aside); I'm talking culturally. 6. Regarding the interview. Any "unusual" Thai customs involved? I'll shower first (even though it's only November), dress professionally, etc...of course. But, seriously, I know not to point the bottom of my feet at the interviewer, etc...Is there anything else that comes to mind that isn't common sense in the west? I've hired several Thais for my company - we placed an ad in the paper, received a pile of resumes, sorted the resumes out into the candidates that had relevant experience and/or education, and then had my staff call in 6-8 for interviews. Depending on how important the position was I either made a decision right away (after consulting with the staff to which the new hire would report) or brought 2-3 shortlisted candidates back in for a second round. The first thing you'll notice that's different in Thailand is that there isn't any issue here with discrimination according to age, sex, nationality, etc. You'll see ads that ask for something like 'a well-presented female, age 22-30- thai nationals only'. And even if the ad doesn't call for it, generally people attach photos along with their resumes. To answer your questions: 1. I'd be surprised if an ad included all three- but if they do then I'd recommend sending in your resume with a cover letter and then following up several days later with a phone call to inquire about the position and soft-sell yourself and ask what the next steps are 2. Depends on the company - we don't use email as it's more difficult to manage than paper resumes, but I know that some companies like to file resumes electronically (especially headhunters) 3. These days most people use .doc files 4. Probably a no-no... odds are the person in question isn't prepared to meet you nor does he/she want to be caught unprepared- a bit too direct here, though there could be exceptions I suppose 5. See #4 6. Nothing too unusual that comes to mind- just be sensitive to the personality of the person who is interviewing you. If you can find a way to connect with the person then it greatly increases the chances of success- here and elsewhere Overall I'd say that the chances of you finding a job through the paper are fairly low. Most of my friends who are working here in business found their positions though industry and association networking- and also going after industries/companies that fit their work background. But it's a long process (see StoneSoup's post about setting an objective and sticking with it) and you'll need something to get you going in the beginning. If possible for you I'd recommend teaching, but something other than English and do it at a University. Finance at a place like Mahidol may be an option as with English you'd be competing against just too many very experienced long-term teachers here in Bangkok. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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