A few go-go bar 'tips' for veterans (unfinished)

[Guest]

Can't say I agree about the tipping. First it is not exactly true that tipping is not expected in Asia. It is actually considered quite bad form to take less than 10 Baht back from change or negotiate over less than 10 Baht in a transaction. There is even a Thai insult about quibbling over less than 10 Baht.

 

It's all good and well to say not to leave any tips. Drink prices are already too high. Tipping isn't Asian, etc. However, tips don't go to the owner, they go to the staff. Tips left in the tip tray are divided at the end of the evening amongst the service staff, bartenders and Mamasans. Most of these people work very hard for very little money. Many of them do not go with customers and have only their salaries (about 4,000 per month) and the occasional Ladydrink (30 -40 Baht commission) to pay rent, buy food and travel to and from work every day plus sending some money for the kid or family back home. These tips are usually the difference between making ends meet and either returning home to poverty or having to go with customers.

 

I usually leave at least 20 Baht in the tray, knowing that each of the staff will only get 50 - 150 Baht at the end of the night. If the service girl has been prompt and attentive, wiping up the water on the counter, filling drink orders rapidly and getting the bill fast I like to give her 20 or 40 Baht in her hand so she gets to keep that money. I doubt it makes me look like a sucker on future visits. It's the guy who scrapes every last baht out of the tip tray that looks like a jerk...Or maybe he just needs the money more than the staff.

[ptyrider]

TopCat writes:

 

> Can't say I agree about the tipping. First it is not exactly true

> that tipping is not expected in Asia.

 

I think that if you do the research you'll find that it is a Western

custom that's gradually infiltrating parts of Asia, in particular

upscale venues that cater partly to foreigners. One thing often cited

by Japanese as something they particularly hate about traveling abroad

to a Western country is the custom of tipping. Have you talked to the

average (not "upscale global culture" types) Taiwanese, Malaysian,

Singaporean, or mainland Chinese about this?

 

You will find that average Thais working in non-bar and non-tourist

trades will tell you that tipping is generally not expected in

Thailand but that of course you can tip if want to.

 

> It is actually considered

> quite bad form to take less than 10 Baht back from change or

> negotiate over less than 10 Baht in a transaction. There is even a

> Thai insult about quibbling over less than 10 Baht.

 

 

Are we speaking about the same country? Go to average exclusively Thai

restaurants, esp. upcountry where the true culture reigns in full

force, and you'll RARELY see tipping. So you buy a plate of *kao pat*

for 30 baht and pay more than a 30% tip? Gimme a break!

 

But if your only contact with Thais is through bar girls, you will

certainly think tipping is the norm. Bar girls LOVE to tip using your

money, the more the better. It's most impressive among the peers,

demonstrates her control.

 

Maybe check to see whether non-bar girls have ever heard this insult,

and in what context it is properly applied. In any case, I wouldn't

start any quibbling .

 

TIP (no pun intended): "Nitnoi" refers to your money, not theirs. If

not, then you could keep it, no problem--and they would gladly give it

back to you anytime.

 

> Tips left in the tip tray are divided at the end of the evening

> amongst the service staff, bartenders and Mamasans. Most of these

> people work very hard for very little money. <snip> These tips are

> usually the difference between making ends meet and either returning

> home to poverty or having to go with customers.

 

Have you actually seen it divided up? Anyway, shouldn't the point

of a tip be to reward good service by a particular waiter/waitress? Why

should poor service be as well rewarded as good? Should we be

supporting that kind of system?

 

Note that in Japan you get excellent service everywhere w/ no tip. How about

average restaurants in Penang or Singapore?

 

In fact in Thailand the tip has turned into a sort of farang tax. This

is not to say that Thais never tip. I don't like paying extra tax.

 

>

> I usually leave at least 20 Baht in the tray, knowing that each of

> the staff will only get 50 - 150 Baht at the end of the night.

 

Check out the Thai daily minimum wage.

 

TIP (no pun intended): Accept Thai society for what it is. Let

governments, charities, and NGOs do the changing of that society if

any, and support them as you wish.

 

Veterans were once newbies and then we all felt as you do. When I

first visited Thailand and the Phils I even gave all my pocket change

to the beggars whenever I encountered them. It's easy, at first to buy

into--and farang tourists, charmed by the smiles, always will buy

into--the attitude implicit among poorer Thais that you owe them

something. In fact, you don't, and begging and cheating really

shouldn't be encouraged. We farang aren't "guests" in this country.

We're "paying customers" often forced or manipulated into paying more

than Thais for the same goods and services. Note that Filipinos,

Malaysians, or Indonesians are much less so, no matter how rich they

are--because they look Thai.

 

Most veterans, as I said at the beginning of the thread, feel we've

done our bit for Thais and don't feel we have further obligations.

This means we've given out or been cheated out of a sufficient amount

already, and we've seen exactly what good it did in most cases and what

kind of gratitude was returned.

 

Hence, if you want to help poor Thais--a noble impulse, that, helping

the poor wherever--make it point to help those who need it most and in

such a way that there's some kind of control and audit.

 

That is,

 

TIP (no pun intended): Support the poor of Thailand by giving to a worthy organized charity in Thailand--the Pattaya

Orphanage, for example.

 

 

> If

> the service girl has been prompt and attentive, wiping up the water

> on the counter, filling drink orders rapidly and getting the bill

> fast I like to give her 20 or 40 Baht in her hand so she gets to

> keep that money.

 

"Up to you," but as Japanese would say, why? Is this more for you than her?

 

> I doubt it makes me look like a sucker on future

> visits. It's the guy who scrapes every last baht out of the tip tray

> that looks like a jerk...Or maybe he just needs the money more than

> the staff.

 

Oh, dear! Looks like a jerk (1) to whom, (2) on what rational basis,

and (3) why should that matter in the least EVEN if it's true somebody

feels so unfairly about me? You see, bar/tourist staff and sex workers will

use what tactics they can to get all that they can. If a smile works,

great. If a frown works, good too. It's just business, my friend.

 

TIP (no pun intended): Don't take it personally or be too concerned

about your image among Thai bar girls and staff. If you wish, you can

turn that around in a second. However, most vets no longer pay for ego

rubs.

 

BONUS: one final drinking

 

TIP (no pun intended): When a waiter/waitress hassles you ("One mo'?")

to buy another drink before you've finished the first, say nothing but

make a calipers of your thumb and forefinger and, elaborately, for

his/her benefit, measure the amount of liquid remaining in your glass.

Soon the waiter/waitress will learn to wait until your glass is empty

before asking you whether you want another, or just wait for you to

order--the way it should be.

[Guest]

When a waiter/waitress hassles you ("One mo'?")...

 

I drink mixed drinks so it is always evident if the glass is getting low. Sometimes the "one more" is ok because I am ready and do want one more, but usually either I'm not ready or I'm going to move on. So after saying no to one, then several other dek serves will come around and ask the same question. My strategy now is once I get down to about quarter glass is stop sipping. Just leave it sit and do the remainder quickly only when ready for one more/leaving.

 

If I do get caught with the "one more" act on a low glass, I usually reply "3%" they'll see me sip and ask again and I'll say "2%" and so on even going down to partial percentages if necessary. It makes them laugh.

[Guest]

5555555 If you only knew how funny that was.

 

Well maybe someone will tell you .

 

Not me

[ptyrider]

LaoHuLi wrote:

 

> Not me

 

I understand. But you don't really have anything, and you know you don't as well, so the less smoke the better, thanks!

 

(Sorry, no time to cater to your need to feel needed.)

 

See you and the supporting cast of 'cons in another thread someday . . . I think we're winding down here.

[Guest]

Ptyrider, Thanks for the TIPS.

 

"Veterans were once newbies and then we all felt as you do." Thanks for the advise, Old Timer. I freely admit I know next to nothing about Thailand. But, first just a couple of teeny tiny little thoughts.

 

Have I ever seen the tips divided at the end of the evening? Yes, in all 9 of the Bars and 3 restaurants I have participated in I have actually seen it with my own two Newbie eyes. Usually, the cashier keeps the key and the Mamasan or Head Waiter divvies it up at the end of the shift. That's what the little box by the cashier that everybody keeps dumping Satang into is for. The Owner is never advised of the tip split figures. But, there are a lot of bars in Thailand I haven't owned or visited. I really will try to broaden my horizons.

 

"However, most vets no longer pay for ego

rubs." I'm both a vet and an expat I love a good ego rub. I also love a fast cold beer served fast in a crowded bar with no bullshit. That, especially, makes my ego soar to new heighths.

 

"But if your only contact with Thais is through bar girls, you will certainly think tipping is the norm." Yeap, too much time with the bar girls........ and Thai Police, Lawyers, Bankers, Bar owners, security managers, executives, secretaries, IT professionals, IT flunkies, security guards, Tailors, college students, Chatuchak store owners, School teachers, School administrators. But, I'm still meeting people and learning. I promise to improve, I really do.

 

"Have you talked to the average (not "upscale global culture" types) Taiwanese, Malaysian, Singaporean, or mainland Chinese about this?" Nope. Most of my time is spent in Thailand or Cambodia. I travel abroad infrequently. However, I agree it is probably in very bad form to leave any amount of Baht as a tip in Malaysia, Singapore or either China.

 

"Never give back the change for *Kao Pat* in the country. "Now would that be *kao pat* Moo, Goong, Nam, Pla Muck, Pla Muck Yuck or Bpoo? Probably not too much chance it is Gai, of late. Most of the Ban Nokes I hang out with are smart enough to carry exact change (and the vendor probably didn't bring any to work, anyway) and polite enough not to quibble for less than 10 Baht. Might bitch about having to pay 30 Baht, for any kind of rice, though. My mother-in-law is so cheap she won't even eat out unless I'm buying. Hardly eats in, for that matter, unless I'm buying.

 

"Support the poor of Thailand by giving to a worthy organized charity in Thailand" ..... And all the time I thought that was what Nana Plaza was all about! Tell you what, you give in your way and I'll give in mine. My Noblesse Oblige credentials were in pretty fair shape last time I checked.

 

"Check out the Thai daily minimum wage." OK, let's do that. Service workers get salaries of 2,000 - 4,000 per month. Bangkok minimum wage converts to 4,500 per month, lower in the other 4 minimum wage districts. And most of the people getting minimum wage...security, construction, household staff and laboroers are provided lodging, transportation and frequently food. Service staff are not provided lodging and have to pay taxis, buses or minibuses to take them to and from work.

 

"Up to you," but as Japanese would say, why? Is this more for you than her? " It sure is for her the next time I come in on a crowded Friday night and she finds me a nice seat, a cold drink and a fast refill.

 

Most mixed drink customers prefer not to suck up every last drop of ice water in their drink and welcome a service staff offering to get them a fresh one. For those of you that might not ever have actually ordered a second drink in a bar, a good service girl will, upon delivering the replacement ask of you would like the dregs of your last drink poured over your new drink. I say yes because I am really cheap, but more importantly I like the ice. ... What I don't like is sitting there feeling foolish because my glass is empty and I've told every girl in the bar to bugger off...and they did.

 

This is my own comment. I don't understand this complaining about a girl "hasseling me" by asking if I want another. "Damn right, I want another, where the hell have you been all my life honey?"

 

Ptyrider, you must drink in better bars than I. My problem is usually finding a service girl to get me another drink, Chart Nee, in this lifetime. Hell, I might even consider tipping for good fast service. On those rare occasions when I actually don't want another drink I find that the simple phrase "No Thank You" (or "Mai Krahp!" if you want to put an expat twist on it) accompanied by a smile usually puts them right in their place. No need for making my fingers into Calipers or other cute devices. The girls are completely cowed by simple courtesy. But, maybe I can work hard and learn some bad manners. I promise to try hard. I do so want to improve myself so people will know I am a true expat.

 

"Are we speaking about the same country? Go to average exclusively Thai restaurants, esp. upcountry where the true culture reigns in full force, and you'll RARELY see tipping." Answer: Now would that be Lao culture up by Udon, Khmer in the Southern Isaan, Chinese the North, Muslim in the South? Phuket/Samui Coconuts? Most of my upcountry experience is limited to Chiang Mai, Surin, Udon, Surin, Korat, Surin, Udon, Si Saket, Khoen Khen, Surin, Chaiyapuum (I've got a great place for a 30 Baht All-you-can-eat buffet lunch in Chaiyapuum...no tipping required) and a couple other stops. Plus I have actually been "Down Country" a couple times as well. Some of my friends in Bangkok are going to be sorely disapointed when I tell them that Bangkok is not the center of Thai Culture. So much to learn. So few bars, So much Thailand and so little time.

 

Anyway, thanks for the pointers on rude behavior. I think I'll just try good manners for a little while longer and see where it takes me. Afer all, I've never had a mobile telephone stolen. Sorry, Blackie, couldn't resist it.

 

Sohn Jerokay WhyNam.

 

Well, it's getting late. Time to dash out for a beer before all the Good Beers are taken.

[Spinning Dwarf]

Bitter post from a spurned wannabe old hand. Possibly could be considered a troll. What the f..fk am I spending time giving it a reply. No need to continue.

 

Cheers,

SD

[Guest]

It's the guy who scrapes every last baht out of the tip tray that looks like a jerk...

 

That will be me ::

 

I do it in bars that I am not a regular in because I figure if am not coming back soon, their is no point in leaving a tip.

 

I do it in bars that I am a regular in, because it means they do not bother giving me a pile of change.

 

(Unfortunately it also means I usually have to scrounge 2 baht for the toilet.......when I don't time my arrival into a gogo bar correctly : When a new BG asks or hints(!?) for a tip I take the change and then inspect the tray closely for a few minutes including banging it on the bar counter, then look sad :(and then say something like "sorry - cannot find tip") It's not big, it's not clever and it's not funny, especially after the one millionth time )

 

I figure that I look like a jerk anyway, so I may as well keep my change. (but then again they know I am good for a few too many lady drinks........)

[Guest]

Gee they were showing in Tesco today, had all their tops off

 

I saw that as well, hope you didn't tip too much

 

 

 

 

PS loads of instant Gremlins - but none with a wink

[Guest]

It's just business, my friend

 

TIP (no pun intended): Don't take it personally or be too concerned about your image among Thai bar girls and staff. If you wish, you can turn that around in a second.

 

I agree with that 100%. One of my favourite sayings is that "you are only as Jai Dee as your NEXT check bin".

 

However, most vets no longer pay for ego

rubs.

 

I hesitate to call myself a vet (I have never put my hand up a cows arse in my life (honest) - maybe next visit to Eden : But I do enjoy having my ego stroked (almost as much as my johnson :

 

In my regular bars I moan like f#ck if my repalcement beer isn't lined up before I run out - my handle One_More is less a nickname, more a philosophy