A few go-go bar 'tips' for veterans (unfinished)

[Guest]

Spinning Dwarf,

 

First of all, chill out.

 

Who's post are you refering to? TopCat's? A troll?

 

He's a bar owner in NanaPlaza who has been here for years. He is responding to a post he obviously disagreed with (and I doubt he is the only one), and is responding in an, albeit sarcastic, manor. Which he is free to do. Here you can flame the messege, but not the messenger (poster), which he has not done.

 

Unlike yourself. Hit and run posts attacking a poster does not cut it here.

 

>>>>>What the f..fk am I spending time giving it a reply.<<<

 

I don't know. Why are you? If you have something to say, then please do so, and make it clear to whom you are responding.

 

We've had many "cheap Charlie" threads here, and almost all get pretty heated. Let's all try to keep it contained here, and remain on-topic. While the subject is related, let's not hijack this into a total cheap charlie thread.

 

Thanks.

 

HT - Nightlife Moderator

[sayjann]

well said HT.

TopCats opinions/views are more credible as he is living there.

i think Spinning Dwarf should learn about some Members before he spouts off.

[Old Hippie]

OK ENOUGH!!! We can stop this flamong right now! There is no need for it. All will conduct themselves proprly, or face the consequences...

[Chanchao]

 

> Most of these people work very hard for very little money. Many of

> them do not go with customers and have only their salaries (about

> 4,000 per month) and the occasional Ladydrink (30 -40 Baht commission)

> to pay rent, buy food and travel to and from work every day plus

> sending some money for the kid or family back home. These tips are

> usually the difference between making ends meet and either returning

> home to poverty or having to go with customers.

 

Breaks my heart. Anyway what better reason then to tip the waitress a couple of baht in hand/pocket. That way you KNOW it goes to her without the bar owner or others getting a cut.

 

Note that I also consider any lady-drinks bought already a tip to the bar. When buying lady drinks I don't think a significant tip to the bar is really called for. When not buying lady drinks I'm more likely to leave a tip to the bar and/or the girl or waitress.

 

Then another thing: We can laugh about PTRider's strategy of leaving 20% drink in his glass because he doesn't like being 'hassled'. Personally I don't mind at all to tell a waitress 'no'. Or when pushed again I just pay the bill but stick around. (And may order again later). Would they get that message? Would they f***. ;-)

 

Anywway, feeling hassled for more drinks is obviously a genuine feeling that bar-owners should take note of. Repeat-asking for 'one more' is really not called for. As a customer when you actually want one more just picking up your glass and tilting it is already MORE than enough to bring 3 dek serves jumping out of the woodwork. Also I think more than a few dek-serves need some basic lessons in politeness. It depends though; sometimes you like the playfull flirty way, sometimes you don't. Dek serves sometimes should realize that they're really just dek serves which means they're NOT anywhere near the customer's level and cannot treat them as such unless more or less invited to.

 

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Guest]

Dek serves sometimes should realize that they're really just dek serves which means they're NOT anywhere near the customer's level and cannot treat them as such unless more or less invited to.

...............................................................

 

good thing flaming is not allowed.

 

that is IMO an attitude that should have died out with feudalism ..............

[Pom Michael]

LHL,

 

Where is the flame ? ::

 

Beer Bars/Go-go's/etc. are admittedly not the same as other service groups like restaurants, but if their servers/wait staff ("dek-serves") are more interested in partying with the customers, then the bar owner/manager should recognize the problem.

 

Someone is being paid to serve, and customers are paying for the service.

 

Maybe that is the next trend in a go-go bar, self service beer. Or maybe a beer vending machine ?

 

I'll buy you a beer, if we can find a waitress in this place.

 

[ptyrider]

TopCat, thanks for such a considered response.

 

TopCat wrote:

 

 

> Have I ever seen the tips divided at the end of the evening? Yes, in

> all 9 of the Bars and 3 restaurants I have participated in I have

> actually seen it with my own two Newbie eyes.

 

Good, I'm glad to finally hear from an eyewitness. I've always been

told this. However, I have heard at least one story of owners or

mamasans keeping an unfair share of the tips.

 

 

> "However, most vets no longer pay for ego rubs." I'm both a vet and

> an expat I love a good ego rub.

 

I understand. Note "most." Yet I find it strange that after such a

long time you find it necessary to PAY for the ego rub. Once you know

how phony it is, why is it still satisfying?

 

My contention (I COULD be wrong ) is that most of us vets, if we

need ego rubs (more likely we know who we are already and need none at

all), are pretty well content with ego rubs from our genuine wives and

girlfriends (who really care about us and voluntarily show their

regard w/o being paid to do so--except in cases where one is paying

his "wife" to stay with him), and regulars (the last admittedly

doubtful, but at least they're giving you exactly what you want

physically and you've known them so long w/ no problems that it just

might be possible that they're friends).

 

I would find it sad if I still had to pay after so many years for

sycophants and sweet lies. Seems a waste of money, too, that could be

better spent elsewhere.

 

But "up to you."

 

> I also love a fast cold beer served

> fast in a crowded bar with no bullshit. That, especially, makes my

> ego soar to new heighths.

 

Me, too, but then again I don't much mind waiting either. My TIPS are

aimed at cutting down on the bullshit, esp. at bars one frequents.

 

>

> "But if your only contact with Thais is through bar girls, you will

> certainly think tipping is the norm." <snip> But, I'm still

> meeting people and learning. I promise to improve, I really do.

>

 

Admirable. Yet on the subject of tipping, I wonder if you can be

objective, since you've been involved in the bar business? It would be

surprising if you weren't an advocate, wouldn't it?

 

<snip>

 

>

> "Never give back the change for *Kao Pat* in the country. "Now would

> that be *kao pat* Moo, Goong, Nam, Pla Muck, Pla Muck Yuck or Bpoo?

> Probably not too much chance it is Gai, of late. Most of the Ban

> Nokes I hang out with are smart enough to carry exact change (and

> the vendor probably didn't bring any to work, anyway) and polite

> enough not to quibble for less than 10 Baht. Might bitch about

> having to pay 30 Baht, for any kind of rice, though. My

> mother-in-law is so cheap she won't even eat out unless I'm buying.

> Hardly eats in, for that matter, unless I'm buying.

 

And so if I am smart enough to carry exact change into a bar, which I

just may be, then I don't have to leave a tip and the *khon serb won't

quibble over my not tipping?

 

And if tipping is a custom, then your Bahn Nokes would surely

hand over an additional 20 to get change so that they could leave a

tip? And if not why doesn't the vendor call your Bahn Nokes names like

"kee neow"?

 

TIP: If you're called "kee neow" (cheapskate) for, as a farang (Thai

men would never be called such), not giving away your money, you can

respond in kind with "kaw tan" (beggar).

 

I think you've pretty much conceded my point, TopCat. Suffice it to

say that the vast majority of Thais have lived and will live their

entire lives without ever giving a tip. The reason for that is that

it's not a traditional custom here, as I said. (Giving away free money

to an employed stranger for doing his/her normal job, a NON-FAMILY

member, doesn't reflect a typical Asian point of view.) Of course it's

welcomed by vendors, however, and farang may be brainwashed into

thinking it's a custom as it is in their own countries.

 

 

>

> "Support the poor of Thailand by giving to a worthy organized

> charity in Thailand" ..... And all the time I thought that was what

> Nana Plaza was all about! Tell you what, you give in your way and

> I'll give in mine. My Noblesse Oblige credentials were in pretty

> fair shape last time I checked.

 

No problem, pal. But that TIP (and it was only a TIP )wasn't

addressed exclusively to you. My point is that there IS a better

alternative that gets the money to where it's needed most, to those

who have no jobs at all or kids with no parents. Quite a few vets (as

this discussion board is witness) haven't had great success doing

things their way.

 

Of course there are exceptions.

 

>

> "Check out the Thai daily minimum wage." OK, let's do that. Service

> workers get salaries of 2,000 - 4,000 per month. Bangkok minimum

> wage converts to 4,500 per month, lower in the other 4 minimum wage

> districts. And most of the people getting minimum wage...security,

> construction, household staff and laboroers are provided lodging,

> transportation and frequently food. Service staff are not provided

> lodging and have to pay taxis, buses or minibuses to take them to

> and from work.

 

Yep. There's an army of service staff in Thailand who don't work at bars

and are not provided lodging, however. In many cases they live with

relatives.

 

And you have to consider that the bar staff have to put up with all

those old farang Romeos, too . . . .

 

 

> "Up to you," but as Japanese would say, why? Is this more for you

> than her? " It sure is for her the next time I come in on a crowded

> Friday night and she finds me a nice seat, a cold drink and a fast

> refill.

 

I would have accepted that, but now it seems it does have much to do

with the ol' ego rub, sorry.

 

>

> Most mixed drink customers prefer not to suck up every last drop of

> ice water in their drink and welcome a service staff offering to get

> them a fresh one.

 

To each his own, but in many cases the service staff harass

the punters merely to increase sales. It starts when your glass is

nowhere near empty, like half full. It's abnormal and doesn't happen

in Thai karaoke bars nor in civilized bars in Western countries.

 

<snip>

 

> What I don't like is

> sitting there feeling foolish because my glass is empty and I've

> told every girl in the bar to bugger off...and they did.

 

Oh, you can just wave and point to your glass. They'll be over soon

enough. I daresay that a lot of vets would not feel foolish in such a

situation.

 

>

> This is my own comment. I don't understand this complaining about a

> girl "hasseling me" by asking if I want another. "Damn right, I want

> another, where the hell have you been all my life honey?"

 

So hassling back? As a vet you know quite well where she's been and

that she doesn't want any personal attention from your ugly old farang

self except that it might lead to big tip, and that she never will

have any personal interest in you, really. Thought you're really keen

on politeness.

 

Still, there are legions of old fat balding bearded farts who will never

be convinced they ain't god's gift to women! Poor girls.

 

I still say that most of us vets (as defined at the beginning of the

thread) would much prefer not to be so hassled. It's a needless and

annoying interruption.

 

>

> Ptyrider, you must drink in better bars than I. My problem is

> usually finding a service girl to get me another drink, Chart Nee,

> in this lifetime.

 

More likely I think that you enjoy drinking more than I do. With me

it's just not a desperate issue.

 

> Hell, I might even consider tipping for good fast

> service.

 

I do tip occasionally, 5 baht max. Most non-bar, non-touristy Thais

will tell you that is sufficient for "service."

 

> On those rare occasions when I actually don't want another

> drink I find that the simple phrase "No Thank You" (or "Mai Krahp!"

> if you want to put an expat twist on it) accompanied by a smile

> usually puts them right in their place. No need for making my

> fingers into Calipers or other cute devices. The girls are

> completely cowed by simple courtesy.

 

It depends on the bar. Some bars are hassle-free and there's never a

problem. (Management is everything, eh?) I'm of course speaking about

those bars where politeness gets us nowhere: she'll be back in five

minutes with the same question not because she thinks you may have

changed your mind but as a way of pressuring you to drink more and

faster, so increasing profits for the bar. She wouldn't normally do

this, knows how rude it is, but has obviously been instructed to do

so.

 

With your style, this won't matter, true. You'll enjoy the attention.

 

> But, maybe I can work hard and

> learn some bad manners. I promise to try hard. I do so want to

> improve myself so people will know I am a true expat.

 

Better to realize and accept that you'll always be an expat and a

farang here, I think. All Thais know it already. But this is not

exactly your point.

 

<snip a point addressed above>

 

> learn. So few bars, So much Thailand and so little time.

>

 

Ain't it the truth?

 

> Anyway, thanks for the pointers on rude behavior.

 

You're welcome. I agree that it's sad that rudeness sometimes or often

works better than politeness in the world of beer bars and go-gos, but

after all it's a (comparatively rough, for Thais) world created for

farang men for a particular purpose. There Thais often act in a rude

way they never would normally in their native environments.

 

> I think I'll just

> try good manners for a little while longer and see where it takes

> me.

 

Um, I don't see that you've ever tried that, exactly, or that you ever

will. It appears rather that what you've always tried is good manners

+ spreading around cash. And we know that will take you as far as your cash

extends, at least, though, it's true, maybe a bit further than bad

manners + spreading around cash.

 

TIP: Stop paying and you'll learn who your girlfriend, wife, and Thai

friends really are; and you'll love and appreciate those remaining

even more.

 

Again, thanks for an interesting discussion, TopCat. You've been in

the right business, I think.