OCgringo Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 I have no doubt in a few years there will be a study that lab rats died drinking Diet Pepsi ! one good thing is that none of my friend raid my fridge ! Always a cold one left for me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Reading the many posts of outrage, it is amazing how some view LOS as such an adult playground equivalnet to Disneyland...All of that nightlife fun that many here enjoy comes at a price. The high price of corruption at all levels of society, human rights violations, a crappy educational system, inadequate opportunities to improve life; allow for the male catered redlight scene that exists. I see things quite differently. The "outrage" you refer to are complaints - legitimate complaints - about the police forcing 300 foreignors at a disco to submit to urine tests, and then even forcing drug free patrons to pay bribes to leave the place. It shouldn't come as a surprise that police raids of this kind elicit complaints and sarcastic remarks. Nor should it come as a surprise that this will have a chilling affect on tourism. Who wants to subject him or her self to this sort of bullying? I have been here for ten years, and Thailand was not always this way. There is some degree of law here. Thailand even has a progressive constitutition that - and I checked this today - prohibits the police to force anyone to submit to a physical examination or medical testing without a court order. The Thai constitution seems to go further than the U.S. Now the rule of law has always been thin in Thailand, but it is thinner now that it has been at anytime I have been here in the past 10 years. Male foreign tourists are not the only ones complaining about this. More and more Thais (particularly the chattering classes in Bangkok) and even foreign governments that are close allies of Thailand are complaining about the erosion of basic civil liberties. And quite frankly, as a permanent resident here, I welcome the criticism. It is a good thing. You can have a vibrant nightlife without rampant corruption, human rights violations, and a crappy educational system. One does not require the other. Indeed a certain level of personal freedom is required for a vibrant nightlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Most people who read and post here don't come from countries where the police suddenly show up at a perfectly mainstream nightspot, lock down the whole place, piss test everyone in attendance in violation of their own constitution, and detain a large number of the patrons on a technicality. Interesting to think back on the amount of commentary we used to have here and elsewhere about how life in Thailand is so "free" vs. the "oppressive" west with its myriad regulations etc. Funny how we don't hear as much of that any more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Gadfly1 said: I have been here for ten years, and Thailand was not always this way. There is some degree of law here. Thailand even has a progressive constitutition that - and I checked this today - prohibits the police to force anyone to submit to a physical examination or medical testing without a court order. The Thai constitution seems to go further than the U.S. Now the rule of law has always been thin in Thailand, but it is thinner now that it has been at anytime I have been here in the past 10 years. . . You can have a vibrant nightlife without rampant corruption, human rights violations, and a crappy educational system. One does not require the other. Indeed a certain level of personal freedom is required for a vibrant nightlife. Yes that is all great in theory but the reality is that Thailand marches to it's own drum. You can talk all you want about constitutions, laws, rights and expectations but if those with the power don't enforce them then they are pretty much worthless. That is why there should not be any surprise, horror or shock when you read about or experience the recent tactics at CM2. I am sure as a long time resident you must realize that your not in a Western law abiding society. You are in a country that has only recently adopted a democracy and even more recently propelled itself into the 21st century. I mean Thais are basically a generation removed from a pure Agrarian society. Look at it this way, how much do you think the current government can care about shaking down some foreign tourists in a venue that is known to cater to hookers and Johns; when they recently had a situation where over 3000 Thai nationals were violently killed during the War On Drugs? Like I said before tourists, especially those in the redlight venues should remember that they are in a country rife with corruption. Complaining is sort of silly when your technically breaking the law yourself. I think it sucks to have to go through the hassle but that is the way it is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 I think the post immediately proceeding yours puts this is an excellent perspective: Most people who read and post here don't come from countries where the police suddenly show up at a perfectly mainstream nightspot, lock down the whole place, piss test everyone in attendance in violation of their own constitution, and detain a large number of the patrons on a technicality. This is also not going down well with Thais well either, which is why I disagree with your comment: Yes that is all great in theory but the reality is that Thailand marches to it's own drum. You can talk all you want about constitutions, laws, rights and expectations... Only one person is beating the drum, and plenty of Thais don't dig the beat. This is not a Thai vs. Farang issue - in Bangkok now many Thais are becoming quite vocal in their objections to what is happening. I am sure as a long time resident you must realize that your not in a Western law abiding society. You are in a country that has only recently adopted a democracy and even more recently propelled itself into the 21st century. I also realize that it had been getting better, until about 3 years or so ago. The trend had been heading in the right direction. In other words, what we are seeing now is even objectionable by Thai "standards" - if you believe different standards should apply (I don't). Complaining is sort of silly when your technically breaking the law yourself. There is no law against adults going to a disco in Thailand. Law is thin here, but all sense of perspective is lost when it is suggested that there is no law here. That is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 >>>Interesting to think back on the amount of commentary we used to have here and elsewhere about how life in Thailand is so "free" vs. the "oppressive" west with its myriad regulations etc.<<< thailand was never free in the political sense (even though the new constitution was a major step towards that), but the society gave every individual a huge amount of personal freedom, as long as one stuck to certain basic rules such as not doing whatever one does not into the face of everyone, not disturbing other's peace with how one might express himself, and as long as certain hirarchies of society here were left untouched. that though is, like the constitution, eroding rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardy641 Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Hi Gadfly 1 Does anyone know the amount having to be paid to the MIB, so I will know how much I have to pay, if I will be in such a situation. I assume that it was higher then the usual 200THB you have to pay, if stopped with your car. Living here for over 8 years know I absolutely agree with you that Thailand has not shown these excesses before a certain person came to power. Thailand was a young democracy developing into the right direction after the Asian Crisis. Unfortunately the last 3 years were not only lost years, but brought significant steps backwards concerning human rights and freedom. Thailand is clearly on the wrong path and the resistance against the autocrat leadership I fortunately growing. Last week HM the King expressed his deep concerns about the dramatically rising corruption in Thailand. Yesterday the Bangkok Post reported about rising worries about quick changing government policies uttered during the Thai Dutch. I just can hope that the Thais finally wake up before it will be too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Apparently the place was open last night, they were checking ID's assiduously and refusing entrance to anyone without. My mate had his driving licence on him, so that was OK, but was refused entrance for wearing open footwear (!?) and was later turned away from Spasso's for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 On the subject of Russian prostitutes, who the hell pays 5000 ST for a dirty Russian crack whore( the state of most of those girls is awful, I wouldnt let me dog fuck them) when you could get five thai girls for the same price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladdin_Sane Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Let's be fair - if he was wearing flip flops he deserved to be turned away. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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