Notorious character at New Wave

[Guest]

Hi Artie,

 

Definition of exploitation, at dictionary.com :

 

1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: exploitation of copper deposits.

 

2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.

 

Well... #2 I would say, fits the punter/bg world best. The question is........ who uses who?

 

Is a b/g with a camera crew, light stands (Nigel uses these, which can be seen in many shots), camera's, and guys standing around watching the action, an unwary consumer? I think not. Nobody is that stupid to think that film will not reach other eye's. B/g knows she is being filmed, and is willingly accepting of the situation, for big bucks.

 

Exploiting her, would be to do so, only without her knowledge. Understand the difference? She is *not* 'unwary' of the situation. It is open, and forthright, and there can be no reasonable doubt about what is occurring, on either side of the table.

 

Who uses who? B/G is getting what she wants (money), and film crew is getting what they want (sex on film). Nobody is being exploited, because both are willing participants. The only way one side could exploit the other, is to be dishonest in their dealings.

 

Conversely, do we exploit b/g's by simply going with them? Of course not. It only becomes exploitive, when one side (or both) is dishonest in their intentions.

 

You cannot exploit a willing prostitute, unless you force her to do something that she does not want to do. >>>>Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.<<<

 

I think many more times than not, the punter is the 'unwary consumer', as opposed to the poor, helpless B/G. A B/G lays on her back for money, and searches out for us, as willing consumers, to accomodate her wishes/desires. Where is the exploitation in that arraingment?

 

HT

[mongatu]

HIGH THAIED said:

. . . A B/G lays on her back for money, and searches out for us, as willing consumers, to accomodate her wishes/desires. Where is the exploitation in that arraingment?

 

HT

And that's the way they probably see it themselves, and in fact they are trying to, and frequently succeed in, exploiting us as well. But in my view us exploiting them derives from the fact that the majority of sex workers, especially in third world countries, are not engaging in their profession entirely out of free will, but rather are drawn to it due to economic circumstance, necessity, lack of education and viable alternatives, etc. And those with more economic power (i.e., us) get to take advantage of their situation. Is this not in some sense exploitative?

 

Not intending to put anyone down as I certainly enjoy my little "exploits" as much as the next guy.

[gobbledonk]

Hi Mongatu,

 

Once again, we've had the 'BGs are forced to sell themselves by economic necessity' debate numerous times, and its just not that black and white. Whether you or I would accept an 'honorable' job in a restaurant or factory (where we'd be exploited nonetheless : long hours for bugger all money) over selling our bodies is immaterial - the girls make a conscious decision to do it. Do I feel no compassion for them ? Quite to the contrary, and that's where half-arsed 'punters' like me get ourselves into trouble.

 

Thailand blurs the boundaries for many of us, and I suspect that we see things from the girls point of view far more than we would in any other country. Note that I'm not talking about indentured prostitution here, and I hope this thread wont go down that road.

 

Where I do feel for the girls is in terms of the grasping families who happily take their share of the monthly paycheck, then reject their daughters upon their return to the village. Perhaps I just dont understand Thai culture, but that sounds like as good an example of 'exploitation' as you'll find anywhere.

[ThaiHome]

mongatu said:

And those with more economic power (i.e., us) get to take advantage of their situation. Is this not in some sense exploitative?

 

Not intending to put anyone down as I certainly enjoy my little "exploits" as much as the next guy.

 

I agree. You would have trouble getting a woman in a developed country to participate for the money being paid here. It is not anywhere close to "big bucks" for the employer.

It is not a put down, but people should be honest with themselves about what is going on.

TH

[Guest]

Hi mongatu,

 

Great post! And this is the flip-side, or 'underbelly', of the situation.

 

Your question lays in whether the girls have options. If not, then yes....we would be exploiting them, because of their vulnerable position in life. Their choice is not totally theirs to make, so would indicate a certain 'bondage' to the lifestyle that they choose?

 

But is this generaly so? In my mind, it all comes down to that simple question....although not that simple in reality.

 

The fact is, there are 1,000,000's of Thai girl's in the same situation as the average B/G, who chose to not become prostitututes. So what sets them apart from their counterparts?

 

Husband has left them with 2 kids, and nowhere to turn. Family is poor, so no help there. So a small precentage turn to selling their bodies, to make ends meet. Is that their only option to feed their baby? Of course not. The vast majority find other means of doing. And that is the simple truth. Most will work in a factory/store making only 8,000 baht/month, before ever thinking about selling their bodies on the street for more.

 

My point is, does the average b/g we screw, have other options? Of course she does. Just like the other 95% of other Thai girls, in her exact same position.

 

So do we exploit the girls who make the decision to go with punters, for their personal gain? I think not, based solely on the fact it is an informed decision on their part, and nothing more. They have other optiions, like all the rest. I really reject the sentiment that they have no choice to do what they elect to do. Just ask the counter girl at Robinson's, or 7-ll. Do you really think that they do not know they could be making 10 times the money, sucking on a farang's dick? All Thai girls are very aware of what they can make by selling themselves. They are not born into a vacuum. From all I've seen there, all are very acutely aware of the situation that exists there.

 

The vast majority reject selling themselves, under any circumstances.

 

HT

[OCgringo]

anyone know how much extra the girls get paid to "star" in these photo shoots ?

[Ranger]

OCgringo said:

anyone know how much extra the girls get paid to "star" in these photo shoots ?

 

I believe they receive 4000B (total, not extra) and are told up front what is to be expected. Not sure if they are told it will make them internet porn stars, but I think most girls are savvy enough to figure that out and make their own choice in the matter.

 

Ranger

[gobbledonk]

4K baht is a pittance compared to what the girls would charge for a similar shoot in the West, but I guess that's showbiz.

 

I hope they enjoyed spending every last shekel.

[Guest]

Hi,

 

From what little I know, Ranger is correct. I've never heard of it paying more than a decent L/T rate. And the girls used, are not exactly 'stunners'. Most seem to be taken in pairs, or in greater numbers, making it a little more comfortable for them to do.

 

HT

[the_numbers]

Finally I think this thread has reached the point!!!

 

Hot lights on stands, camera crew, and a stud-cock for a Thai girl on DV-Cam. BG's know what its for, and in fact I know a *star* in one of the flicks.

 

She said, "Good maybe it make some man horny he want to come find me, or dream about me." Sounds like she's getting the market rate to do what she does - fuck for cash.

 

I didn't ask her how much she got paid. However, she says he wore a condom the whole time. If he were deliberately diaristically documenting himself as an HIV+ male making unprotected pornographic films with BG's that would be more of a clear issue.

 

He would be a specific kind of sociopath or parasite in that case. Not that they aren't common, but not always primadonnas.

 

BTW, I liked the one about making porn in Bangkok and getting model releases. I think it goes something like this '4000B I bust a load in your mouth."

 

la vie se la vie...

 

the_numbers