"The pictures are to graphic to show you."

[FIGJAM]

flyonzewall said:

i hope many american families will get to see those "too graphic" pictures, so that they can start thinking for what they have to send their children into another unjust and aggressive war.

And I hope many American families will get to see, in "too graphic pictures", HOW in Iraq foreign soldiers and civilians (even those who are there to help the Iraqis and who are AGAINST that "American war") are slaughtered by Muslim extremists. I hope Italian families will get to see, in "too graphic pictures", HOW the Italian hostage Fabrizio Quattrocchi got slaughtered by Muslim extremists (Al Jazeera HAS the video but has refused to air it -because it's "too graphic", go figure!..- or give copies of it, just showed it to Italian Foreign Office's representatives) and HOW it looked after the suicidal bomb attack that butchered 18 Italian soldiers and I hope Thai families are remembered every day, in "too graphic pictures", HOW adolescent monks, students, teachers, postmen etc are being slaughtered in the South by the Muslim minorities.

 

As for our allegedly *unjustified* moral high ground, well, let's get rid of it then, ok? Let's put ourself at the same exact level of the rest of the damned world!

Let's start to handle matters the same exact way the average African/Asian/Arab nation would do! I AM ALL FOR IT.

 

Outside of the evil West, where the fuck are those free, democratic, civil, advanced, caring, fair, *humane* civilizations??? In Saudi Arabia??? In Ruanda??? In Thailand???

 

Wake up gents, we have got it far better (read: far less bad) than anywhere else on this planet.

 

The political correctness (again a product of the West) is the biggest fuming pile of political shit ever.

I just wish to the PC idiots (so prevalent in the West and, it seems, on this very board) to be able to live, in a not too distant future, in a world ruled not anymore by the evil West and its bigger Satana, the United States of America, but by any other African/Asian/Arab country of their choice. With the same power we "white trash" have now.

 

Good luck.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Guys, this is getting way too political for my taste. Can we please take it back to the question of censorship rather than pro vs anti US ?

 

Sanuk!

[MaiLuk]

Yes. How is it that all the media outlets in the US don't show any graphic images of the war to the US public? Can someone postulate a conspiracy of some sort?

[pattaya127]

problem with your post, Mailuk is that the only word valuable in assessing one's actions and desires as well as those of others around the world, is missing: reality. Facts are stubborn, and history, not so distant one, has taught that democracy in another country does not depend on another's wishful thinking for it, however mighty it may be.

Any decent historian could have demonstrated the chimera in that dreamt-up version of democracy on its white horse "capital", applied, er...parachuted into the Middle east.

 

If democracy is winning, not your words, Cheney and Co, why does the US army live protected in super safe compounds as cities, when not warring or patrolling?

[MaiLuk]

Administrations come and go and have to learn. There may be more elections to come in iraq after the initial january one, don't count it out yet. time will tell

[Guest]

Mailuk wrote "Yes. How is it that all the media outlets in the US don't show any graphic images of the war to the US public? Can someone postulate a conspiracy of some sort? "

 

The government flants their power over the media just as it does individual citizens. If citizens should protest, they are, in many cases, censored by the government.

 

There are many examples of US citizens who no longer can fly in the US or out of the US because the government has put them on no-fly lists because they were active in demonstrating against the country. The right to free press has been breached.

[pattaya127]

We don't choose any country to rule the world, FIGJAM, but the US administrations has made a good business of propping up these people you and them find so despicable. Care to explain?

 

You also conveniently, like so many, amalgam dislike of what one administration does, with dislike of a whole country or what it has brought to the world. A common easy targeting.

 

 

Finally, and here i am, KS, we criticizing our governments and not censoring ourselves, tell you by that, what part of the world we wish to see rule: the one where we can exercice that freedom and a few others as well. We ain't going anywhere! ::

 

 

MM:

There are many examples of US citizens who no longer can fly in the US or out of the US because the government has put them on no-fly lists

--------------------------

correct, but we are the warrants of our liberties, not some damned govnmt. When called upon, Judges have reverted these no-fly decisions by telling the FBI to go fuck itself if it could not prove they were threats.

 

Freedom is only good if you can use it to the full extent of the law. Govnmts would love to screw that up, nothing new. they shall pass, and we too, if we don't fight for freedoms when they are threatened. Alas, right now is not a good time for disagreeing. The next economic slump will take care of that, when people lose their jobs, they'll start waking up.

[Guest]

>>>When bush announced he was invading because of WMD, I did not believe him. It wasn't that I did not believe saddam had WMD. I believed he had 'em and so did everyone else. It just seemed blatantly obvious to me that WMD had nothing to do with the real reasons for going in. Was not the first and won't be the last that a US president obtained the implied consent of the american public by using a pretext. And with saddam violating UN resolutions, the pretext was further perfected.<<<

 

 

 

your post is a perfect result of the perfected propaganda machine.

back to the original question - are those pictures too graphic? why is it that you accept the the US can go into a war under a "pretext" (others call it blatant lies)?

 

 

>>>It posed a tremendous opportunity to expand american influence into the middle east.<<<

 

and for that you need a war?

a war based on "pretaxts"? isn't that exactly the same hitler has done with poland?

 

you posted that sadham has violated "UN sanctions". where is the UN sanction that has authorised the US to go to war against irak? as it was clear that the majority did not buy the so called "proof" presented by powel, the US simply cricumvented the UN.

you americans were bombarded with lies, such as that saddham is in some way responsible for 9/11, that there were WMDs in irak. even you opposition politicians, the democrats have voted for the war (which opposition, i am asking?).

and those too graphic pictures that "cannot be shown" are in the same way part of a media machine that has completely failed to act as a watchdog of democracy.

you americans are kept in a state of paranoia (moore makes some very good points about that in his documentaries), you are brainwashed, censorship and selective reporting is all you get, and all you have to base your opinion forming on.

 

i am sorry, it is beyond my understanding how anyone can simply accept those "pretexts" for the war, especially after *all* of them have been exposed as blatant lies, faked intelligence, or utter miscalculations.

 

somewhat like, make them minor issues by using the medias to instill fear, paranoia and patriotism into the population. dead US soldiers, US soldiers doing the nasty things that happen in war are a hindrance to that agenda (memories of vietnam where an unjust war was helped to be brought to an end by the help of the medias). and so not shown using other "pretexts". and when one is cought doing something terrible in a combatsituation, he will be the fall guy when the news cannot be contained anymore, to show that we are better than the others.

only that the most important thing is falling under the table - that the whole war is/was against every international agreement.

 

not showing those pictures is just another failure of the medias, in a long list of failures that has allowed a couple of politicians/businessmen with a history of corruption, a history of very close personal relatioships with the companies who directly benefit most from this war, to start this war.

 

yes, the real information is out there. but this is part of the (not so) subtle manipulation of our democracies. the vast majority of voters simply do not have the time to either travel into the affected areas, or to actively seek for differing news sources. they do what the majority does - working hard to raise their families. so you only need to bind the major networks and news sources to you, and the naysayers are a matter of irrelevance.

 

the most perfect propaganda machine ever.

[Guest]

:: :: :: [color:"red"] I have seen no court decisions to remove people from the no-fly list. [/color]

 

The no-fly list is a list that can not be revealed for whatever reason. Who is on it, we do not know. What are the 'rules' so as to get put on such a list, is not made available to the public.

 

:: :: The no-fly list violates so many civil liberties that it is hard to believe that people that are willing to die to bring 'democracy' to another country, are willing to allow such stuff to go on.

[thalenoi]

>>>When bush announced he was invading because of WMD, I did not believe him. It wasn't that I did not believe saddam had WMD. I believed he had 'em and so did everyone else.>>>

 

Please retract the "So did everyone else"

 

How naive can you possibly get?

 

I have not met any european or Thai who did believe the WDM joke. Do you think Colin Powel believes???

 

All my friends rather think Irak was INVADED by the USA to control oil.