FIGJAM Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 BelgianBoy said: I do think that the only effective way to deal with it would be to make the situation known (at every chance, barred none) to the western public opinions (with plenty of real life examples, particularly when families/women/children are involved) and putting pressure on our politicians to reciprocate. Thats a load of bollocks. Remember 2 years ago when the US decided to impose pics and fingerprinting to anyone entering the US ? Brazil reciprocated and it created a diplomatic war...... That's a fuming croc of shite (like your style... ) The Brazilians had no other reason to fingerprint the Americans than that to "prove a point" and make visiting and spending money into their country as much of a hassle as possible for US tourists. Where were the Brazil's national security reasons for fingerprinting them (and only them)? Moreover, whereas in the US the Brazilian visitors were (neatly and relatively quickly) finger-scanned, the US visitors in Brazil where slowly and messily ink-fingerprinted... So, since US visitors don't pose national security threats to Brazil, since Brazil govt tries to make for US visitors entering their country as annoying as possible just for the sake of it and since I doubt that the Brazilians visiting the USA are bringing into the country anything near the amount of valuable foreign cash that the Americans visiting Brazil are, I will let you decide for yourself on the intelligence, opportunity, fairness and benefit to their own needy 3th world country and citizens of the Brazil's move... The reason of the public opinions' noises (rather than "diplomatic war") was that all of these facts were very clear for all (well, almost...) to see. And BTW, what has the final outcome of that "diplomatic war" been?..... The US can decide what it wants, so does Brazil, but so does Thailand.IMO of course. When in Rome, do as......... You should know that And I also know that when Rome was the capital of the known world nobody could influence what "the Romans did" BUT the Romans had the "economical"/"financial"/militar (and even cultural) powers to influence what anybody else did, whenever they see fit... And that was exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosal Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 FIGJAM said: That's a fuming croc of shite (like your style... ) The Brazilians had no other reason to fingerprint the Americans than that to "prove a point" and make visiting and spending money into their country as much of a hassle as possible for US tourists. Where were the Brazil's national security reasons for fingerprinting them (and only them)? Moreover, whereas in the US the Brazilian visitors were (neatly and relatively quickly) finger-scanned, the US visitors in Brazil where slowly and messily ink-fingerprinted... So, since US visitors don't pose national security threats to Brazil, since Brazil govt tries to make for US visitors entering their country as annoying as possible just for the sake of it and since I doubt that the Brazilians visiting the USA are bringing into the country anything near the amount of valuable foreign cash that the Americans visiting Brazil are, I will let you decide for yourself on the intelligence, opportunity, fairness and benefit to their own needy 3th world country and citizens of the Brazil's move... The reason of the public opinions' noises (rather than "diplomatic war") was that all of these facts were very clear for all (well, almost...) to see. And BTW, what has the final outcome of that "diplomatic war" been?..... And I also know that when Rome was the capital of the known world nobody could influence what "the Romans did" BUT the Romans had the "economical"/"financial"/militar (and even cultural) powers to influence what anybody else did, whenever they see fit... And that was exactly my point. :sleeping: :sleeping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 That's a fuming croc of shite (like your style... )The Brazilians had no other reason to fingerprint the Americans than that to "prove a point" and make visiting and spending money into their country as much of a hassle as possible for US tourists. Where were the Brazil's national security reasons for fingerprinting them (and only them)? Figgie, thanks for the compliment, but now you argue about the pot & kettle and a certain color.... na ? And I also know that when Rome was the capital of the known world nobody could influence what "the Romans did" BUT the Romans had the "economical"/"financial"/militar (and even cultural) powers to influence what anybody else did, whenever they see fit...And that was exactly my point. If that is your POV, then its not valid at all. Rome was souvereign above all. You are not. Relax and enjoy what you can have in LOS, same as others would have when visiting others..... BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hi, Figjam makes some good points, and can understand why is pissed off. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Prosal said: :sleeping: :sleeping: Sleep well. Just hope you're not dreamin' of havin' a normal life in Thailand as a Farang-seet, the awakening won't be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 BelgianBoy said:Figgie, thanks for the compliment, but now you argue about the pot & kettle and a certain color.... na ? BBoy, I guess I wasn't clear enough.. :: Brazil's reciprocation has achivied nothing but (slightly) endangering the $40+ billion dollars (just the official figure) yearly pumped into their needy 3th world economy by US tourism and potentially making the US saving the money otherwise spent by its tourists in Brazil. The West's hypothetical reciprocation would save us the money we spend to grant the rights and the benefits we grant to Thais in our countries and would make Thailand lose the money and the other direct and indirect benefits their country gets by having its citizens pumping foreign money into LOS. Imagine denying to Thai nationals in our countries the welfare state benefits we now grant them (govt's hand outs, health care, social security pensions etc.), allowing them in our countries only when they bring money in or come to work the particular jobs we need them to do and not allowing them to own land and houses in our countries and making for them very hard to send the money they earn here to their home country, and extremely hardly granting them permanent residence (but rather yearly renewable, hard-to-get and costly, BY OUR STANDARDS, non-imm visas) and least of all citizenship (all of this exactly like what they do to us). If that is your POV, then its not valid at all.Rome was souvereign above all. You are not. You mean nowadays the West has not the financial/economical/political/cultural (obviously, let's not even talk about the militar) power to show Thailand the error of its ways? If we really had the political will to, Thailand could at best hope to become another (by them much despised) Myanmar, shouldn't they start to rectify a little of the shit they give to their guests once they enter their borders... Relax and enjoy what you can have in LOS, same as others would have when visiting others..... The very point I am trying to make, BBoy, is that what "others have when visiting others" is NOT the same as I can have in LOS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 "You seem not to understand we are talking about people bringing into Thailand their money made elsewhere. You also seem not to understand/know there is practically no welfare state in Thailand, particularly for foreigners. So nobody is asking for nonexistent hand outs from the Thai govt nor is anybody going to be a burden on nonexistent Thai free housing, feeding, clothing, unemployment aids, health care and education services." You fail to get my point. Of course, you are bringing in money from outside. However, the Thais are not obliged to agree that money has priority over all other claims, such as nationality. There are subsidies everywhere in Thailand, the roads you drive on or the hospital you visit. If you bring in outside money you won't even have to pay taxes in Thailand. So you will be subsidzed. [i assume that your wife lives with you in NYC] So, is it really that the way she feels living in the USA? A "guest in someone else's country who will be tolerated as long as she can contribute some benefit, i.e. dollars"? (BTW, is she contributing some benefit to your country?) The US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services makes it abundantly clear that my wife has few rights, certainly not the right to stay here unless they say so. They will not approve her unless it is clear that I can support her until she can support herself. She is a student now. The basic requirement in the US is that the immigrant must be able to work. Not surprising for a country that historically lacked workers and still does in some ways. Discussions of immigration policy in the US always focus on whether the group in question contributes a net benefit or not. "I can assure you, having lived in the US myself, that is NOT the feeling I got from the place, its laws and its society. Nor that's the feeling my Thai wife gets from my home country, its laws and its society living with me in Italy from almost a year. She has got, from day one, practically the same rights I enjoy as a citizen, has got permanent residence the day we got married and will become a citizen herself in about a year time. Italy and the other developed countries in Western Europe have much more social welfare than the US, healthcare, for one. As I remember the Italians weren't too happy about all those Albanian refugess a few years ago. Still rich countries like Western Europe and the US are in a position to be more generous than poor countries like Thailand. The Italians needn't worry that there immigrants will buy up all the land. Hell, over here even illegant immigrants have more rights than those Thailand grant me... You haven't answered the main question, "Why does Thailand owe you anything?" Because Italy gives more?? Khun Pad Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 You mean nowadays the West has not the financial/economical/political/cultural (obviously, let's not even talk about the militar) power to show Thailand the error of its ways? If we really had the political will to, Thailand could at best hope to become another (by them much despised) Myanmar, shouldn't they start to rectify a little of the shit they give to their guests once they enter their borders... Wow.... now you really crack me up here :D is your name George W perhaps ? And you left religion out, why did you do that ? At the same time, dont you want to convert those poor suckers so they can see the light as well ???? I find Thailand has independent rights to decide on its own what and what not to do, right or wrong. Plus that the "rich west" (including you) could learn a few lessons on eastern philosophy IMO. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 BelgianBoy said:Wow.... now you really crack me up here :D is your name George W perhaps ?And you left religion out, why did you do that ? At the same time, dont you want to convert those poor suckers so they can see the light as well ???? I find Thailand has independent rights to decide on its own what and what not to do, right or wrong. Leaving aside your PC blabbering on US politics and cutting to the point (YOUR point): shouldn't we have the same rights? Why shouldn't be possible for us to treat (quoting you: "right or wrong" that it may be) our guests the same way we are treated as guests in their home countries? Plus that the "rich west" (including you) could learn a few lessons on eastern philosophy IMO. Living there has tought me (and this is My Opinion) that they have far many more lessons to learn from us than we have from them. The fact that the life for a wealthy foreigner (and I stress: if and when he is, at least for the local standards, wealthy) is usually pleasant in the "Far East" does nothing but further prove my point. There is nothing so miserable as to being the "average Joe" in other (read Asian in this case) societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosal Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 HIGH THAIED said:Hi, Figjam makes some good points, and can understand why is pissed off. HT "I will let you decide for yourself on the intelligence, opportunity, fairness and benefit to their own needy 3th world country" HT Brasil being a needy third world country, is that what you call a "good point" ... well sorry, I'd call this arrogance and rank ignorance. Sounds to me a weak argument from someone who knows nothing about the country and sees it through the most stereotypical lens possible. Not that I care a lot anyway .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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