FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Prosal said:Brasil being a third world country, is that what you call a "good point", well sorry, I'd call this arrogance and rank ignorance ... Sounds to me a weak argument from someone who knows nothing about the country and sees it through the most stereotypical lens possible. So we have just learned that you completely missed my point and that Brazil is stealing IMF money and countless other economical/financial aids and benefits since, being a developed nation, doesn't qualify for the financial/economical aids and benefits reserved to "less developed nations" (or "still developing nations"), the nowadays cool politically corrected expression for "third world countries". Not that I care a lot anyway .... Sweet dreams, Prosal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hua Nguu said:Well, I did leave out that part didn`t I. When I said just about anybody I was referring to people that may not be so "desireable" due to low cash, It's a clearly and many times stated aim of the current democratically elected Thai government to get rid the country of the low quality (their words) and thus unwanted (again their word) tourists who frequent bars and do not spend much money in Thailand. So, being the first logical step to restrict the access to those country richer or at least economically comparable to them, what is the second one, to screen out the "bad" ones, if not making it as costly as possible to extend one's stay in the kingdom (visa fees increase and higher and stricter non-imm visas reqs, even for those already succesfully supporting their own whole family in Thailand above the average Thai living standard)? And what about the longest visa currently available (the one granted by the "Thai Elite Card") which is granted solely to those able to fork out 1 million baht for few little benefits other than the visa itself and being recognized as "elite"? Even to those rich "elite" they are still not willing to grant permanent residence (god forbid citizenship) but just a 5 years renewable tourist visa to graciously let them spend their money in Thailand without actually owning nothing more than condo units (that itself subjected to strict regulations and limitations) and forever being nothing more than "tourists" allowed to stay longer and more easily than others just because they are richer than the other "low quality" ones... criminal records Read Thai immigration laws, the same things that may prevent you from visiting western countries, prevent you from visiting Thailand as well. Actually, it's much more easy to get banned from Thailand than it is from western countries. And things which would be "minor issues" in the West can, in LOS, get you jailed, expelled and put on the Thai blacklist forever... or whatever reason. You mean like being reported by Thai nationals to the Thai authorities in your home country in order to get you banned from ever entering the country for having been/having said things less than respectful to Thailand? In short, from whatever angle you want to see it, saying that "anyone is allowed 30 days stay in LOS, no question asked" in totally untrue. But that doesn`t alter the fact that for westerners and other nationalities richer or economically comparable to LOS it is a breeze to enter LOS, but definitely not for thai people to enter the west, no? That doesn't alter my reply neither: Not allowing them in would just be Thailand and nobody else's loss while (as opposed to Thailand where they are nonexistent) we are trying to prevent the ongoing exploitation of our welfare states and of the rights and benefits we grant indiscriminately to all of our guests. The basic human ones we grant even to those illegally here, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 One may argue endlessly regarding the specifics of the legal aproach the Thai Government has towards Farangs but for me this is besides the point. For me it is the "feeling" of second class citizenship that rubs me the wrong way. Yes one can eventually get the visas and with a good lawyer acquire land through a variety of means but the feeling is very nationalistic and exclusive. Please do not respond by mentioning other countries I am speaking about LOS here.Yes it is their right to control as they see fit but it does not feel good to me.Its about getting the tourist money into the system but not really about letting people relax as responsible citizens/members of society here. Just my POV and yes i have been here a long time (14 years)speak Thai fluently bla blah blah. Its about control, and yes, it is their choice but I dont have to like it.Like the land ownership issue,passport issue,peeing in a bottle,the rotten cops ,judges...it goes on and on. But before you freak out and flame my POV I do feel large parts of Thai culture steeped in ancient Buddhist thought are enormously civilized,deep and fascinating but as my best Thai friend, who sits on the very top of the food chain here says," the system is very uncivilized" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 ThaiHome said:I did notice you failed to address the main issue in KhunPadThai response, that being the main reason for the restrictive property laws is to keep foreigners from buying up the country. On the other hand, I do think that Thailand could make it much easier for law abiding, productive foreigners to live long term or become permanent residents. For a person with a good job, or nice nest egg, it really isn't all that hard to get the visa extensions anyway. TH Closing up its market (especially, but that's my opinion, to small and medium entrepreneurs) is what is holding back Thailand compared to countries in the same region some of which, on paper, should be much more closed than a "modern", "democratic" country like Thailand is supposed to be. The growth of China (once it has opened up a tiny little bit) at the expense of (also) Thailand addresses Thailand's fear of someone (Chinese apart...) buying up the country...... But they don't necessarily have to look and understand (shortsighted and ... well, as they are) how the modern global economy works or how the west's economical history has progressed through the increasingly more "open", liberal and capitalistic markets building our wealth to realize how much they are fucking their country up, they just have to look back at their own history and see what have differentiate themselves from their poor, "closed" and much (by them) derided neighbours. What the peaks of their economic growths' leaps have corresponded to? What economical and financial forces and operators do they owe their development to? For a start, a nice lesson could be re-learned by them from their beloved King Rama V. But since this thread is not about the economical future of Thailand (for which I don't care and to which I will be only there to say: som-nam-na) but rather the lack of rights for foreigners in LOS, the groundless (as history and economy teach, and for which there are countless countermeasures anyway, as already pointed out) fear of someone buying up the country has fuck all to do with all the other rights denied to foreigners. Some of them as basic as to be allowed to live with and support one's family... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosal Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 FIGJAM said: Prosal said:Brasil being a third world country, is that what you call a "good point", well sorry, I'd call this arrogance and rank ignorance ... Sounds to me a weak argument from someone who knows nothing about the country and sees it through the most stereotypical lens possible. So we have just learned that Brazil is stealing IMF money and countless other economical/financial aids and benefits since, being a developed nation, doesn't qualify for the financial/economical aids and benefits reserved to "less developed nations" (or "still developing nations"), the nowadays cool politically corrected expression for "third world countries". An outstanding post by a gringo who, having never experienced even one tiny slice of Brasil, feels entitled to discourse on the country, entire. Personnaly the more I've learned about Brasil the more I've realized I don't know : too big an complex ...... but I'm very impressed by your atonishing knowledge, thank you to share pieces of this erudition with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Prosal said:So we have just learned that Brazil is stealing IMF money and countless other economical/financial aids and benefits since, being a developed nation, doesn't qualify for the financial/economical aids and benefits reserved to "less developed nations" (or "still developing nations"), the nowadays cool politically corrected expression for "third world countries". An outstanding post by a gringo who, having never experienced even one tiny slice of Brasil, feels entitled to discourse on the country, entire. Personnaly the more I've learned about Brasil the more I've realized I don't know : too big an complex ...... but I'm very impressed by your atonishing knowledge about this country, thank you to share pieces of this erudition with me. I realize that it all probably looks like magic to your sleepy ignorant eyes, but the "knowledge" that has so much impressed you is simply based on hard, well known and widely available facts. At least to anyone who is awake enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hi, Prosal and Figjam, keep the personal stuff out of this okay? Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 khunsanuk said:Hi, Prosal and Figjam, keep the personal stuff out of this okay? Ok, sorry for that "sleepy ignorant eyes", I was being really naughty... Anyway, jokes aside, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 [color:"green"] I did notice you failed to address the main issue in KhunPadThai response, that being the main reason for the restrictive property laws is to keep foreigners from buying up the country. [/color] That is an emotional issue and not a practical concern. Is it better for a bunch of rich Thais to buy up the land or foriegners. In the USA anybody can buy property. I remember back in the '80s there was concern about the Japanese buying up all the property. The only thing that happened is the Japanese lost their shirt on those deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CondomKing Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 suadum said:I do not care if it is not in my name as we will be together forever. I feel the same way about my wife, but it sure would be nice to have my name on a piece of paper. No one knows what the future holds in store and legal documentaltion makes for an even playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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