Do I pay for her ticket

[Central Scrutinizer]

TH,

 

"Nah, don't think it was too harsh and certainly not presumptuous or condescending. Rude, maybe."

 

Well, it seemed so to me. The guy is asking for help from those who may have "been there, done that", those here with some experience and knowledge under their belts that may be willing to help him in his "indecision" and misgivings and rightly somewhat cynical thoughts about this "relationship" he has entered into. (I mean christ, he's known her personally for what, a two week holiday and some phone and e-mail time?) At least he has the sense to look for info and someone willing to mentor him through his doubts and thoughts on this. I give him credit for at least wanting to listen to others thoughts on this, rather than just blindly and blithely rushing into something that may cost him money for nothing good and an emotional let-down. I find the most cynical posters and those who have been here and dealt with a relationship with a Thai lass ARE the ones who were burned exactly because they didn't take the time to get some advice before leaping in head first. Once burned they become hardened and cynical to all relationships with Thais. I'd say he at least is doing the right thing seeking some input from others. Don't you remember when you first started coming here? How much did you know? What was your experience? Did you get burned? Some are lucky enough to have an inate skepticism for pie in the sky and something for nothing. If it's too good to be true, it probably is suspect. It is quite a shock to some, and before the internet there was sparse info on these subjects available. Those of us who were here earlier had to rely on our own brains, experiences, and wits, and basically learned through trial and error. A lot got burned quickly and badly. Now with the internet and boards such as this it is possible for many to learn and request info and input and advice for those who may be able to help them somewhat. I agree some will not have the social skills or inate wisdom or mental toughness to survive the pitfalls that can come from a relationship with someone from an alien culture. Some seem to always get themselves in trouble, have bad experiences, (I've know a few close friends that did so, and became cynical twats and miserable bastards to be around because of this) and they always seem to do what they have been advised not to do, every time, or just don't seem to use their inate common sense and listen to what their big head tells them. They are a disaster waiting to happen, then who do they blame? Not themselves that's for sure.

 

"You gave good common sense advice,"

 

Thank you.

 

"but shouldn?t he have been able to figure that out by himself? It ain?t exactly rocket science after all."

 

Some can, some can't. Some just look for someone else to bounce their thoughts and ideas off to firm up what they probably already know, but want to hear someones thoughts on the matter. It can be overwhelming and totally at odds to one's previous experiences in life in farangland though for some, don't you feel?

 

"I am just constantly amazed at how many guys write wondering if the girl really loves them or are they just after the money."

 

I am too, but at least some have the sense to ask for advice from others. A lot of wishful thinking goes on here, and Thai women are great at seeing what a guy wants and needs, and can play you like a virtuoso pianist and exploit a mans weaknesses! :: But really HT, telling someone to "Find a life" isn't exactly helpful nor inviting is it? Not everyone coming on here is at the level of experience or sophistication as others who have been here for years, even decades either living or visiting the country. No one forces other members here to answer these kind of posts, right? If they annoy one why even bother replying? Better to just say nothing and ignore these posts if they bother you I'd think.

 

"I have wondered why you have such a soft spot for these guys."

 

I don't know. Maybe because I've been there myself and have a modicum of empathy? Maybe because I remember long ago having doubts and questions I would have loved some input on from others with some experience. I came to Thailand on a whim, it was a fluke really. What I found was totally alien to me for the most part. I don't mind imparting some of what I have experienced and learned on occasion once in a while when I have the time. Usually I don't now-a-days because I am kind of busy and can't take the time to get involved. Maybe KS can start a newbie forum and guys who don't mind answering these questions could help out when they can and if they want to. Others who find the same old questions boring and bothersome can just skip the forum completely. No muss, no fuss.

 

"You should certainly understand how hard it is to separate love and money in Asia and the how the games westerners try to play to do so are in vain and usually end up destroying the relationship."

 

Most definitely!

 

"In my mind, you either make the commitment or you don?t."

 

In my mind it is best to take a wait and see attitude, test the waters, see if there may be something worthwhile there or not. Slow and easy is my motto. No jumping in head first until I can at least see there are no obvious rocks under the surface to split my skull open on! Some rush in too quickly, (a few guys come to mind here I've known) and when they do most will get burnt. Patience can be an intelligent virtue in these matters I'd say. Once you have some knowledge then I'd commit, but slowly, over time. Always give yourself the option to cut your losses before you've gone whole hog. Look before you leap and all that fine type of adage. They are adages for a reason. Others have learned what to do, and what not to.

 

JMHO, your mileage may vary.

 

Cent

[DWS]

Cent,

 

Thanks for your well considered advice, and also for leaping into the fray on my behalf.

 

While not an insignificant amount of money, it wouldn't be a huge outlay either, and ultimately it would be cheaper than me going there. Yes you are right about how I'm feeling right now, missing her, missing the laughs, missing the sex, impatient to move things along and see if this relationship is going anywhere. But I take your point that it is still early in the relationship and a little patience my be in order. And yes, much of this is a mute point without the visa. I had been assuming it would be as easy as last time, however considering recent comments here, it may be more difficult than 4 years ago. So determining whether she can get a visa and time involved will be the first consideration.

 

Cheers,

DWS

[DWS]

TH

 

?Your lack of self-esteem is showing through as well as too much time spent reading forums about rip-off Thai women. Find a life and quit reading stickman reader submissions?

 

Well that?s constructive isn?t it. I find your comments rude, judgmental and presumptuous considering you know nothing of me or my life (or apparent lack there of).

 

I don?t need to read any reader submissions to Stickman to make me cautious. I was burnt financially and emotionally myself by a Thai woman about 10 years ago. I don't let that make me paranoid, and I do accept some responsibility for that disaster, due to the very mistake of trying to separate love and money which you mention. These days while I don?t harbour any ill feeing toward her, but yes I do tend to be more cautious in relationships.

 

But my post wasn?t meant to be a question of love or money. Of course she doesn?t love me, it?s too early in the relationship for that. And this is precisely why I feel she should contribute something if she seriously wants to visit me. The main premise of my original post was to try to establish what level contribution a middleclass Thai woman would be able to make. My concern was that maybe my expectations based on her having a good job, her own car, apartment etc might be unrealistic.

 

Yes you are correct that many of Cent?s comments are common sense, but there are many different ways of looking at any situation and hearing the views of others or having your own thoughts confirmed is always useful.

 

On a side note, I do agree that there are a lot of guys out there trying to come to grips with the culture clash of differing attitudes to love and money between Asia and ?the West?. And many relationships will fail because of a lack the knowledge or experience to successfully do so. Instead of sitting back and throwing bricks at them, perhaps you could offer some insight on how to come to terms with it. I am sure many would thank you.

 

Cheers,

DWS

[jitagawn]

 

 

Cent says" have a modicum of empathy?"

 

I agree empthy and compassion are what life is about

[shygye]

[color:"green"] While not an insignificant amount of money, it wouldn't be a huge outlay either, and ultimately it would be cheaper than me going there. [/color]

 

I doubt it will be cheaper. You will be paying for clothes, dinners, travel, and entertainment all at EU prices.

[Shit-Spattered Dog]

DWS said:

 

But my post wasn?t meant to be a question of love or money. Of course she doesn?t love me, it?s too early in the relationship for that. And this is precisely why I feel she should contribute something if she seriously wants to visit me.

DWS

 

Sounds like your trying to improve and advance this relationship by buying her a ticket to your home. However, you state she doesn't love me, so I take it each of you (or both) have not past the point along where both ( you ?) are at the "friendship" stage or level.

 

I guess it depends how high up the friendship ladder each of you are both at. I met this Auzzsi (sp?) i really liked. She liked me as well. Part of here travels took her through my home country, different city however. She tried to change her ticket but the cost or something was out of reach. I said nothing. I was waiting for her to make the first move to suggest some kind of compromise or hint. Things didn't quite work out for us and I have not contacted her since.

 

I think you will just end up knocking your brains out. Trying to elevate from a friendship to love, via long distance will leave both of you winded and frustrated. Save your money for your next visit. Perhaps use it to extend your stay longer. If SHE starts making noise about wanting to travel and see the world, hey, than jump right in. Offering an all expense paid holiday could be asking for trouble. Jumping in to early could ruin what you both have already build.

 

Shit.