Hat Yai: Insurgents bid for independent state...

[Zorro]

SiamIam said

Define "hard-line"...The Thai government must do something here. These attacks will not stop with simple political discourse, unless of course the Thai government agrees to give them a Patani state. The stated mission of these organizations is to annex land from the sovereign country of Thailand, the government MUST militarily intervene in such situations.

 

Maybe you haven't read what has been going in the south lately but a few months back a whole lot of demonstrators were rounded up and loaded into trucks and 70-80 suffocated to death. These were ordinary folks demonstrating against what they perceived as anti Muslim bias.

How was this sort of state sponsored assassination helpful in dealing with radical elements in the south?

As i said before the majority of Muslims there are not radical but at the same time are disatisfied with the governments po licies in the south.

Now actions like what happened with the killing of all those people by the police a few months back has the effect of pushing those moderate elements into the hands of the small number of extremeists thereby strengthening the radical elements in the south.

This is patently not good government policy.

Now you want to turn the military onto these people.

What effect do you think that this is likely to have?

Maybe you would prefer the Roman method where they just kill everybody men, women, and children and raze the towns and villages??

[SiamIAm]

 

"Maybe you haven't read what has been going in the south lately but a few months back a whole lot of demonstrators were rounded up and loaded into trucks and 70-80 suffocated to death....How was this sort of state sponsored assassination helpful in dealing with radical elements in the south?"

 

I'm very familiar with the situation on the south, and monitor the news wires (as well as other sources) daily. The "Tak Bai" incident you are referring to, was unfortunate. A propaganda VCD about the incident been continually disseminated thought out Thailand created and edited by the insurgents. It continues to be referred to by the para-military groups as "proof" of indiscriminate Thai violence against the Muslims in the South. Of course, the violence was started by the protestors as they trough rocks, and later shot at the officers as they stormed the police station... The violent protestors (who stormed the police station) were rounded up, tied and put into transport trucks face down stacked on top of each other. Reports from survivors say the people on the bottom were basically crushed and were physically unable to breath. Calling those deaths "state sponsored assassination" is a stretch...

 

"As i said before the majority of Muslims there are not radical but at the same time are dissatisfied (SIC) with the governments po licies (SIC) in the south."

 

Does that justify the bombings of schools, police, ect...? They have other avenues for political change…

 

"Now actions like what happened with the killing of all those people by the police a few months back has the effect of pushing those moderate elements into the hands of the small number of extremeists (SIC) thereby strengthening the radical elements in the south."

 

I agree that the Tak Bai incident has had a negative "anti-Thai" effect on the south when taken out of context. I don't condone the killing of these protestors, but it would SEEM that these deaths were accidental (debatable, I know). To point at this incident as indisputable proof of anti-Muslim policies is ridiculous. Of course, this is exactly the type of recruiting propaganda the para-military groups are looking for…

 

"This is patently not good government policy.

Now you want to turn the military onto these people.

What effect do you think that this is likely to have?

Maybe you would prefer the Roman method where they just kill everybody men, women, and children and raze the towns and villages??"

 

Perhaps I have been un-clear on my opinion on what actions the government and military should take, allow me to clarify. There is an insurgency in the south whose stated goal is to annex land from Thailand. Obviously, The Thai government will not simply allow this, nor should they. These individuals continue to use terrorist tactics, killing innocent Thai citizens to make their point. These individuals, the para-military faction behind the violence, is who the Thai Intelligence/Military/Police need to target. Thai citizens, who actively participate, become enemies of Thailand by proxy. I don't condone the wholesale slaughter of innocent Thai citizens simply because they live in the south, but action (non-violent or otherwise depending on the situation) needs to be taken here. If individuals view this action as "wrong" well, I think they need to take a clear objective look at the situation and reassess.

 

In fact as I write this Nation TV is reporting a bomb went off at Sungaikolok railway track, Narathiwat....

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Siam

[chuckwoww]

"These individuals, the para-military faction behind the violence, is who the Thai Intelligence/Military/Police need to target. Thai citizens, who actively participate, become enemies of Thailand by proxy. I don't condone the wholesale slaughter of innocent Thai citizens simply because they live in the south, but action (non-violent or otherwise depending on the situation) needs to be taken here. If individuals view this action as "wrong" well, I think they need to take a clear objective look at the situation and reassess."

 

As far as I can tell you keep saying the same thing over and over. Something needs to be done. Can you be more specific about WHAT should be done?

 

The rebels or whatever they are use guerilla tactics. A bomb here and there, a gun attack, then they melt away. What precisely should the Thai authorities do to combat that?

[SiamIAm]

"As far as I can tell you keep saying the same thing over and over."

 

Sorry, I try not to be redundant.

 

"The rebels or whatever they are use guerilla tactics. A bomb here and there, a gun attack, then they melt away. What precisely should the Thai authorities do to combat that?"

 

Good question, these tactics have been utilized successfully around the world, and are notoriously difficult to defend against...If it was my decision, I would collect all intel I could on the leaders of the PULO, BRN, ect. and surgically arrest or eliminate them...The former may be the best (if not most technically difficult) option as creating myrters for them to rally around is a distinct possibility.

 

While other leaders may fill their positions, at the very least it will leave the organization in disarray, and buy time for the Thai government to come up with other options for pacifying these groups.

[Nervous_Dog]

Hmmm - 30 years ago parts of issaan "Red Sakon Nakorn" threatened and triedd to go communist with Laos/Vietnam.

 

It ended.

 

The South was fine with the Military working close with the local people.

 

It went bad when the Police took over that duty, and being the most corrupt part of thai enforcement, it went bad quick.

 

What to do, go back to the original plan that worked!

 

And that;s what Mr T promised to do this week, but we'll see.

 

DOG

[chuckwoww]

"If it was my decision, I would collect all intel I could on the leaders of the PULO, BRN, ect. and surgically arrest or eliminate them...The former may be the best (if not most technically difficult) option as creating myrters for them to rally around is a distinct possibility."

 

 

Well I would imagine the Thai police/generals have thought of that. They probably offer bribes too and maybe even a bit of torture. They probably know who the leaders are since most of them are probably clerics and local politicos. Doesn't seem to stop the bombings. Anybody with a grudge against a cop, a market stall or a supermarket can let one off.

[SiamIAm]

"Well I would imagine the Thai police/generals have thought of that."

 

Actually in 1998 they did exactly that:

 

"After some leaders of the old and new PULO movements were arrested in early 1998, confusion immediately occurred within this organization. However, the two factions (PULO 88 and Caddan Army) have tried to patch up their differences and to strengthen mutual cooperation. At present, it is reported that the two factions have dispatched their armed units to carry out joint military and political operations in some areas of three southern border provinces. Command headquarters of the two factions are located in Malaysia." -GlobalSecurity

 

So the execution of this plan (arresting the current leaders) is more of a geographic problem than anything else...Does Thai intelligence service/military have the resources to covertly enter Malaysia, capture and transport them back to Thailand? Will the Malaysian intelligence capture them for the Thai government if asked? Does the Malaysian government care or even support these groups?

[chuckwoww]

The problem is more than geographical I think. It is religious, political, economic and emotional.

 

Of course if you bump off all the leaders, if that's possible, covertly or any other way, you have nobody left to negotiate with. Unless you give up on negotiations totally.

 

Interesting developments in N. Ireland recently.....sorry if it's off-topic...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/vote_2005/northern_ireland/4415617.stm

[Nervous_Dog]

In the Northern Ireland situation a number of interesting developments, The South is moving fast, part of the negotiating tactic is to suggest to the royalists that if they join the South, they will have 4 seats in a small parliment, and can actually get things done, and be in a wealthier situation. If they stay in westminster, they'll be 4 seats amongst many, and can do fuck all.

 

Also Sein Finn lads are getting hammered, they get a "allowance" to cover all sorts of expenses, however if the boys play up, like robbing a bank or killing someone, then they get the allowance cut!

 

All in all, give the Northern Island 20 years and it'll be a memory, people in the old movment have moved on, those behind are turning to criminal activites.

 

Royalist with the most to loose, as in 20 years they will be very outnumbered population wise.

 

DOG

[chuckwoww]

It does look as though Gerry Adams has stuck his neck out. It will be interesting to see how the boyos feel about it.

 

Getting back to the South Thailand situation. The thing that seems most obvious to me, and probably most Thais, is that so far the bombings have been confined to the region. This suggests a certain organized strategy by the rebels (can't come up with a better word for them). It also means that if you try to remove the central command then the violence will get more random and widespread. Right now it looks like neither side wants that to happen.