Beheadings Raise Tensions in Thailand

[SiamIAm]

"You could give these guys the land they want, then they'd want more, want the whole damned worled to convert to islam or whatever...no making them happy...giving in isn't the answer, no idea what is..."

 

I totally agree with you here, appeasement is not the answer. I think in Thailand’s case, the people will get sick of this and force these elements out of the communities.

 

These attacks (beheadings) remind me of gangland hits in the US. Very visible and public to intimidate. Unfortunately what worked in the US (infiltration) has already been shown to be notoriously hard to do with these terror cells...I'm not sure what the answer is here, how do you reason hard-line ideologists who’s own religion dictates they kill anyone who does not believe in it’s cannons?

[AF16]

Old Hippie said:

As I said before, it is impossible to catch all of them, or make all of them stop...hell, look at Isreal...you get the Isrealis and the Palestinians to agree on something, and the heard liners on either side still fuck it up...

 

You could give these guys the land they want, then they'd want more, want the whole damned worled to convert to islam or whatever...no making them happy...giving in isn't the answer, no idea what is...

 

In the 70's native Norwegians (samer) were on the verge on engaging in armed actions against the Norwegian society. They had been treated rather badly, their culture thrashed and enough were enough.

 

The Norwegian answer were to give them certein rights, some who could only be seen as 'equal rights', making up for the past errors, and some were consessions to their history and culture, which meant special rights.

 

The armed movment crumbled and went away.

 

Giving in? Your perspective could paint you into a corner there is no escaping from. If you do something wrong, it's not giving in when you correct it.

[Evel_Penivel]

AF16 said:

 

In the 70's native Norwegians (samer) were on the verge on engaging in armed actions against the Norwegian society. They had been treated rather badly, their culture thrashed and enough were enough.

 

The situation of the Norwegian samer (Lapps) in the 1970s was very different than the Muslims in southern Thailand. There were only about 20,000 samer and their grievances mainly had to do with traditional economic activities (reindeer herding, fishing, etc) and preserving certain aspects of traditional culture (primarily the sami language) in very sparsely populated areas of Norway. The Norwegian government wasn't hesitant to guarantee the status of the country's indigenous people through a constitutional amendment. I doubt the threat of armed resistance by a very, very small number of samer had any influence at all. In any case, it's unimaginable that samer would have begun beheading Lutheran ministers.

 

The Muslims in southern Thailand want to break away from Thailand and establish an Islamic state under sharia law. They want to drive out the Buddhist Thais and destroy all vestiges of Buddhist culture, much like the Taliban did in Afghanistan. The goals of the samer in Norway were understandable and reasonable, those of the Muslims in southern Thailand aren't.

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

The Norwegian government wasn't hesitant to guarantee the status of the country's indigenous people through a constitutional amendment.

 

I don't know about the situation in Norway but it is probably very similar to that in Sweden. Calling the same people indigenous is only partly correct. They were of course in place when the Swedish and Norwegian nations came into existance. However they were not the only ones. The oldest archeological finds in northern Sweden are not from the same but from people who moved in from the south. This does make sense as the ice cap receded from the south to the north. It is true that they have been treated very badly throughout the years but this does not make them the only original Swedes. E.g. the southern province of Sweden where I am from has never had any raindeer hearding same people.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[Steve]

So if appeasement is not the answer or a separate state, then it will probably escalate then? Were there always problems or is this a symptom of the growing pan-islam attitude that has occured since bin Laden has emerged?

 

If it escalates, is there chances of foreign moslems coming in? Possibly from Malaysia or Indonesia to help like in Iraq where non Iraqi moslems have streamed in?

 

What about the non Thai moslem population in Pattaya? They seem mostly middle eastern in origin. Perhaps the Thai government will stop granting holiday visas to them?

 

What is the likely outcome?

[Guest]

Evel_Penivel said:

The goals of the samer in Norway were understandable and reasonable, those of the Muslims in southern Thailand aren't.

 

 

 

Fascinating.

Even though until about a hundred years ago "the muslims" of southern "Thailand" had their own independent country, even though they are ethnically, linguistically and culturally very different from Thailand their quest for independence is deemed "not reasonable". Why may that be so? Because they are muslim?

Lets take another case: Tibet.

Even though Tibet's declaration of independence of 1911 was never accepted by any country in the world and fought against by many Tibetan feudal states in Tibet's borderlands, general world opinion does rarely question the reasons for Tibet's independence. No matter that the last millenia tibet was clearly part of china. No matter that even the Dalai Lama publically only asks for autonomy.

 

 

Regardless the doubtful benefits of independence of southern Thailand, people there have a very clear case that has to be brought to the table of diplomacy. The consistent history of uprisings there since the state of Pattani was taken over should be a sign that military actions will not lead to a lasting solution. Worse, it will only lead to further islamisation of an originally nationalistic problem. And therfore unsolvable when it turns into another cause for the international djihad.

Thai nationalistic brainwashing, emotionally induced world wide anti muslim tendencies such as shown in this thread will make the situation only worse.

[Evel_Penivel]

sourkraut said:

[.... their quest for independence is deemed "not reasonable". Why may that be so? Because they are muslim?

 

No, because they are murderous fanatics who want to create a theocratic state based on sharia law that would force the conversion of non-believers. I really doubt that those beheading monks have a broad backing among the Muslim population of southern Thailand. Most Muslims want to be part of a secular state.

 

There is a huge different between Islam as a path to personal salvation and as the foundation of a state than encompasses non-believers as well as believers. Some Muslims in southern Thailand may have grievances, but the way to resolve them isn't to lauinch a terrorist campaign aimed at creating an Islamic state.

 

If a small group of Catholics in Germany demanded independence for Bavaria and started burning Protestants at the stake, how would that be any different that what the Muslim terrorists are doing in southern Thailand?

 

Re: Tibet. No argument from me there. I think it has been a part of China for centuries and should remain so, albeit with more recognition for the rights of Tibetans to follow traditional ways.

[jitagawn]

You asked me a number of posts back... How concerned am I?

 

Well given that a group of FOUR bombs were found surrounding the police barracks a scant 125 meters from the balcony of my condo in Klongsan I guess i SHOULD BE (This was last year

shortly after the massacre of almost 200 hundred by means of suffocation and rifle fire) But alas, I am not. :: ::Not sure why...But I do tend to shy away anyway from the tourist areas like Nana, SC and the like. I more foten hang with my Thai friends or long term expat friends who are more part of the general working populace.

Who knows maybe this will lessen the odds ? or maybe not...

I do think it is just a matter of time before a bomb goes off in BKK though.

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

I have only been down there once and that was in 1982. I came by train from Georgetown and as soon as we passed the border at Padang Besar armed Thai military boarded the train. They also had the power to throw anyone off the train. I was assured that the insurgents were only common bandits and I believe that this was mostly true. However the unrest has been ongoing for a long time.

I have no idea what will happen in the future but I think there is a good possibility that Muslims from other countries will join in and especially from Malaysia of course. It seems to me that religions have waves of fanatism. Just think of the autodaefes in Avingon and the burning of witches. Not to speak of the crusades which were launched to rid the holy places of infidels.

I think Muslim communities all over the world are getting increasingly pissed with the western world. The reasons are many and we discussed some of them in another thread before it was closed.

What about the non Thai moslem population in Pattaya? They seem mostly middle eastern in origin.

In my experience they are there for precisely the same reason as we are. However they would provide an excellent hiding place for arab terrorists that want to blend in to the environment.

the Thai government will stop granting holiday visas to them?

I think this could be a possibility. As always the innocent masses will pay for what a few arseholes do.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

I do think it is just a matter of time before a bomb goes off in BKK though.

 

Most unfortunately I must agree with this and with a rudimentary knowledge of the Thai psyche I think things will escalate real quickly from there.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK