Luck and Bareback

[Therafalution]

ptyrider said:

Prosal said:

 

Despite what the scaremongers want you to believe, HIV just isn't spread easily from female to male.

 

End of story.

 

End of story indeed for Arthur, my old Brit friend, who once confided to me ?I never use ?em. Condoms. Can?t stand ?em. If SHE wants me to use one, I won?t barfine her! And?knock on wood (as he rapped his knuckles on a plastic table)?I?VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.?

 

Died of AIDS on Nov. 27, 1999, at Banglamung Hospital, Chonburi. Cremated at Wat Sawangfa; ashes scattered in Pattaya Bay. RIP.

 

pty rider,

 

I am sorry for the loss of your friend and I certainly do not intend being flippant deliberately contentious by suggesting this but did you friend really die from HIV infection?

 

Yes i'm sure he was given an HIV diagnosis but what did he actually die of? The collection oof AIDS diseses are not new thay have always existed but have now just been given a new name although the actualy definition of AIDS has changed several times now it requires and HIV diagnosis and a T-cell count below 200. So was he a drug user?, or did the diagnosis cause him to change his behaviour i.e drinking lots living hard etc, etc, or was he on anti retrovirals medicines? How many people diagnosed with HIV are actually aware of the scientific studies done into the efficacy of these antiretrovirals or are aware really how much damage they do to the body?. Or did he really just continue to live his life in a healthy and happy way and then go on to develop AIDS?

 

And how did he cope with the mental stress of being given an HIV diagnosis. Many people will suggest they are worried about being given an HIV diagonosis but to actually be given one..... it is a death sentance, simple as that, you take a test then wait to be told if you will live or die, even with the most aggressive forms of cancer there is always a chance no matter how small, but everyone will tell you HIV has a 100% death rate, no survivors, you've just got to wait it out till you die a terrible painful death, ostracised from society for your dirty, disgusting lifestyle, perhaps even shunned by those close to you. You would certainly have to made of tough stuff to be able to cope with that many aren't.

 

It is also intersting to note the DR Robert Gallo co-discoverer of HIV said back in 89' someone could "live with it [HIV] for 30 years and die of old age"

 

I am certainly not advocating unsafe sex, regardless of the existence of the virus, i simply feel people should be aware of what the scientific studies have actually shown on this subject. Most have no idea what they are actually doing when they take an HIV test and for most the test itself is extremely stressful. They are not aware of exactly what test they may be taking, how a positive or negative result is given, that there is no standardised procedure throughout the world for giving a positive result, a positive I one country could be given as a negative in another. The standard elisa test used in most countries as an initial HIV test, dilutes a patients blood at 400 to 1 are people aware that a study showed when that blood is tested at 1 to 1 100% of people test positive suggesting everybody has HIV antibodies just not in high enough concentrations to warrent a positive diagnosis.

 

 

Or how are people aware of the cross reactivity problems that can cause false positives in healthy poeple, the medical community never make this clear, such as flu or exposure to TB something that is endemic in the regions where many farangs girlfriends come from.

 

a comprehensive list of factors shown to cause cross reactivity,

 

Anti-carbohydrate antibodies, Naturally-occurring antibodies,

Passive immunization: receipt of gamma globulin or immune globulin (as prophylaxis against infection which contains antibodies), Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Mycobacterium avium, Systemic lupus erythematosus, Renal (kidney) failure

Hemodialysis/renal failure, Alpha interferon therapy in hemodialysis patients, Flu, Flu vaccination, Herpes simplex I, Herpes simplex II, Upper respiratory tract infection (cold or flu), Recent viral infection or exposure to viral vaccines, Pregnancy in multiparous women, Malaria, High levels of circulating immune complexes, Hypergammaglobulinemia (high levels of antibodies), False positives on other tests, including RPR (rapid plasma reagent) test for syphilis, Rheumatoid arthritis, Hepatitis B vaccination, Tetanus vaccination

Organ transplantation, Renal transplantation Anti-lymphocyte antibodies, Anti-collagen antibodies (found in gay men, haemophiliacs, Africans of both sexes and people with leprosy), Serum-positive for rheumatoid factor, antinuclear antibody (both found in rheumatoid arthritis and other autoantibodies), Autoimmune diseases: Systemic lupus erythematosus, scleroderma, connective tissue disease, dermatomyositis, Acute viral infections, DNA viral infections, Malignant neoplasms (cancers), Alcoholic hepatitis/alcoholic liver disease, Primary sclerosing cholangitis, Hepatitis, "Sticky" blood (in Africans), Antibodies with a high affinity for polystyrene (used in the test kits), Blood transfusions, multiple blood transfusions, Multiple myeloma, HLA antibodies (to Class I and II leukocyte antigens), Anti-smooth muscle antibody, Anti-parietal cell antibody, Anti-hepatitis A IgM (antibody), Anti-Hbc IgM, Administration of human immunoglobulin preparations pooled before 1985, Haemophilia, Haematologic malignant disorders/lymphoma, Primary biliary cirrhosis,Stevens-Johnson syndrome, Q-fever with associated hepatitis, Heat-treated specimens , Lipemic serum (blood with high levels of fat or lipids)Haemolyzed serum (blood where haemoglobin is separated from the red cells), Hyperbilirubinemia, Globulins produced during polyclonal gammopathies (which are seen in AIDS risk groups) Healthy individuals as a result of poorly-understood cross-reactions, Normal human ribonucleoproteins, Other retroviruses, Anti-mitochondrial antibodies, Anti-nuclear antibodies, Anti-microsomal antibodies, T-cell leukocyte antigen antibodies, Proteins on the filter paper,Epstein-Barr virus, Visceral leishmaniasis, Receptive anal sex

[whosyourdaddy]

Well I will say one thing. HIV will raise the average global IQ

[jitagawn]

 

BB in BKK or anywhere with BGs??? Denial is not just a river in Egypt- I would hearitily recommend you use condoms if you are going to sleep with prostitutes in BKK.I ve said it once I will always say it again.

HIV or not you could win the "daily double" as a friend of mine did from BG7 last summer. He went BB and got the drip AND the little blisters (Herpes) on his winkie-I also wrote about a BG7 lady who died from Aids a couple of years ago.

 

I dont know how people can enjoy BB when the %(albiet small) is right there in front of them.

Also the longer you do it the greater the chances become. IMHO each to their own but I think BB is just somewhat dellusional. Just looking our for you guys . ::

[ptyrider]

[color:"blue"] Therafalution wrote:

[/color]

 

 

[color:"blue"] > did you friend really die from HIV infection?

[/color]

 

His hospital doctors diagnosed him with AIDS, which normally would

require an HIV test. His brother and sister-in-law, both professional people (unlike Arthur), flew in from

Surrey and they concluded that

the diagnosis was correct and saw nothing they could do for him.

 

[color:"blue"] > Yes i'm sure he was given an HIV diagnosis but what did he actually

> die of?

[/color]

What indeed. The list of AIDS-defining illnesses is a long one. To

discover which illness, exactly, and where, is finishing off the

patient can be quite a medical challenge. The word to describe him

towards the end is "wasted." He was only in his mid-50s. Never seen

anything like it, myself.

 

[color:"blue"] > So was he a drug user?

[/color]

No, he was a sex user, mainly.

 

[color:"blue"] > or

> did the diagnosis cause him to change his behaviour i.e drinking

> lots living hard etc, etc,

[/color]

No, he was in denial until he had to be carried out of his rented room. Very

much a creature of habit, Arthur.

 

[color:"blue"] > or was he on anti retrovirals medicines?

[/color]

To take such medicines would, you see, overtly disturb the denial

process. One might feel even feel some sense of obligation to begin

using condoms, which would unduly interfere with one's pleasure.

Arthur took no antiretrovirals. He put skin lotion on his rashes,

though.

 

[color:"blue"] > How many people diagnosed with HIV are actually aware of the

> scientific studies done into the efficacy of these antiretrovirals

> or are aware really how much damage they do to the body?

[/color]

Arthur suffered not the slightest damage from any antiretroviral

before he finally died from the damage resulting from AIDS.

 

[color:"blue"] > . Or did he

> really just continue to live his life in a healthy and happy way and

> then go on to develop AIDS?

[/color]

 

He really just continued having unprotected sex with as many bar girls

as he could afford for as long as he was physically able. He did make

a point of keeping his shirt on, however, so that the unusual,

remarkable, and inexplicable skin rash on his back wouldn't alarm the

ladies. Accordingly he was happy until he realized the party was

nearly over, and then he resolved to die in the place where he had had

so many good times with "the birds". Six ladies from his favorite bar

did attend his cremation ceremony, probably because he was such good

friends with the owner of the bar. None of them inquired as to his

cause of death, however.

 

 

[color:"blue"] > And how did he cope with the mental stress of being given an HIV

> diagnosis.

[/color]

His reaction, so far as I observed during my visits with him, was to

continue lying on his death bed

and say good-bye to friends, relatives, and well-wishers during his

lucid spells.

[chilli13]

Very sad. Thanks for sharing

[Therafalution]

PTYrider,

 

thanks for the reply, and certainly it is very sad, but seeing as you have answered I don't believe I am overstepping the mark by asking you to clarify as I am a little confused on a couple of points, are you saying the first thing he knew about being HIV positive was when he was told in the hospital just prior to dyeing? That he was in denial about having symptoms but refused to take a test? It sounds like that but you say he did not take medication because he was in denial which would suggest he received his diagnosis before he became ill.

 

Also did the postmortem just say AIDS, whilst the list of defining diseases may be long surely it would have given the disease he died from, you don't actually die from AIDS.

 

Anyway if it upsets you don't bother with the answers.

[ptyrider]

Therafalution said:

PTYrider,

 

thanks for the reply, and certainly it is very sad, but seeing as you have answered I don't believe I am overstepping the mark by asking you to clarify as I am a little confused on a couple of points, are you saying the first thing he knew about being HIV positive was when he was told in the hospital just prior to dyeing? That he was in denial about having symptoms but refused to take a test? It sounds like that but you say he did not take medication because he was in denial which would suggest he received his diagnosis before he became ill.

 

Also did the postmortem just say AIDS, whilst the list of defining diseases may be long surely it would have given the disease he died from, you don't actually die from AIDS.

 

Anyway if it upsets you don't bother with the answers.

 

Well, it is upsetting to think about Arthur as he was quite a good, kind, and funny guy, much loved and appreciated by those who knew him including myself. Though I miss him, I?m also angry and disappointed with him for needlessly checking out betimes. Now, the only thing I know of that distinguished Arthur from average Joe Pattaya was his insistence on never using condoms. On the other hand I?ve never met any other male farang in Thailand who professed to use condoms and then died of AIDS (OK, AIDS-related illness) as did Arthur. After seeing with my own eyes what happened to him, I?m quite willing to take reasonable precautions, even if unnecessary, that may help ensure I don?t end up in the same situation. I relate this story so that others might be encouraged to do the same.

 

To answer your query, Arthur was advised to get an HIV test when he sought medical treatment for the classic symptoms. He didn?t say whether in fact he got the test, but he did strongly imply that he didn't get it. I believe the reasons that he didn?t get it were that he feared confirmation of what he already knew (from the doctors and from the markedly deteriorating state of his health) and he wished to live in a state of denial. When I urged him to return to Blighty for medical care, he said he didn?t wish to go through any course of treatment (without admitting treatment for what, exactly, or why he didn?t wish to go through it?pride? lack of money?). He was also in a visa overstay situation and wished to retain the lowest possible profile. Lacking the confirmation of the HIV test, he absolved himself of guilt for possibly infecting others as he continued unsafe sex practices until too weak to do so any longer. For a ladies' man such as Arthur, sex and "the birds" really were of paramount importance.

 

It was just expedient in many ways I think for him to adopt a fatalistic attitude. The inexpedient part was of course early death.

 

Arthur's remains did undergo the standard Thai police autopsy but I was not privy to the results. Whether his closest relatives received the report and had it translated into English or not, I can?t say. I stayed in touch with them for a while afterwards and they didn?t mention anything about it. My last email to them went unanswered. I suspect now they wish to forget.

[Zorro]

It is not just AIDs that you have to worry about as there a whole host of little nasties that can ruin your holiday and in fact much worse can hang around forever.

 

So it is very prudent to cover up.

 

That being said from what i have read it is quite difficult for a man to contract AIDs from a woman via normal heterosexual intercourse.

[Nervous_Dog]

A bit of a technicality, but yes, AIDS doesn;t in itself kill you but creates a inviroment for opportunistic diseases to kill you.

 

So - without AIDS, the person wouldn;t die most likely of the same disease that kills you.

 

SO Does AIDS kill, fuck the technicality, it does!

 

As a side note, many people who are in hospital for cancers and other diseases often die of something opportunisitic, don;t see any raising that technicality

 

DOG

[Guest]

Jitagawn: Denial?? Okay, Mr. LaLa Land, have it your way. Having sex ONE time unprotected and not catching HIV is the exact same odds as buying a fish at the market taking it home and finding a fabulous gold and diamnnd necklace inside. If you say the chances of each are the same, EXACTLY the same, then have it your way.

 

I'm not saying unprotected is okay. I'm saying that ad is a gross exaggeration, that's all. But hey! I guess many people, yourself included, think the odds of both those things happening -- unprotected but no HIV, and finding an expensive necklace inside a fish at random -- are exactly equal, so who am I to be skeptica?