khunsanuk Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hi, FarangDang, you are fairly new to this board and may not yet know this but LuisBKK has a severe prejudice against all women from Isaan, and even more so to bargirls from Isaan. I think he feels superior by looking down on them. Obviously, he is not. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Is this some misunderstanding? FarangDang posted quote: I don't think most people can easily differentiate BGs from your random lower class TG. Note "lower class"! Now Ckrisg made this into quote: bargirl dressed well can enter any social area and not stand out. "any social area and not stand out" - this is ridiculous! Bring her to some business meeting and she will stand out (single most important difference from everybody else: skin colour) - so would a peasant girl or a construction worker. So here I understand Luis. Back to FarangDangs question: quote: I'm curious as to exactly what it is about bargirls that makes it completely transparent to everyone (but me, apparently) that they are hookers, even when dressed up and you are talking about "unrefined" girls. The usual reasoning goes like this: a low class and/or dark skinned TG with a farang must be a prostitute. Most Thais see it this way, and more sophisticated reasoning is considered unnecessary - but it is quite possible. If you think the only thing that gives away a BG are her clothes and makeup, you are wrong. It is the sum of all her behaviour, clothes are just a part of it. Low class is established through: skin colour, height, she feels uncomfortable in her clothes and cannot walk in her shoes, language, non-verbal behaviour (she just doesn't know how to behave except on the farm and in the bar, those are the worlds she knows, everywhere else she feels uncomfortable). CSW status is further established through behaviour that is unacceptable for Thais outside of the bar, but she has gotten used to it - and this is not only the clothes. Gutter language in Thai, BG English (quite different from the broken English of a student or a secretary), physical expression of affection in public, no modesty like a good Thai girl, looking and smiling at every farang - the last 2 points are probably the most important ones. And of course you can look at the way her farang treats her and the way he looks (age? fat? ugly?) - gives you some hints too. Sometimes it is not "completely transparent" though, but just an educated guess. And very seldom its impossible to tell - but then this is not because of the clothes. [ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: iuytrede ] [ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: iuytrede ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 "Any social area"...That's really funny...I wasn't even talking about myself It seems sometimes KS stays long enough on this board to forget what goes on in Thailand. Westerners are not welcome in many tables in Thailand and Isaan girls in even less.Prostitutes or not actually Political correctness and despise of social casts imported from the West may stick to ur mentalities but unfortunately we're talking about Thailand KS U really seem to enjoy reducing the problem to me.IMO it does nothing good to Ur crediblity,except of course if U want to impress only the people I describded in the above paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 So many prejudices consolitaded on one page only I haven't seen since a long time (maybe I am not used to a lot, might be)!! Quote: In most scenarios even if you "dress a bg up" so that she does not look like a bg most people will still detect she is a bg by her actions and reactions to certain situations.... This might be the case in a minority of cases, but to quote this as normal is just not true. The reason why people might believe she's a bg is just the fact that she's with a farang. BTW, this is the case everywhere, in Thailand and in Europe etc. (Thank's farangdang: I just figured that you already quoted quite the same) Quote: Yes entering into a conversation about world matters might be a little daunting, but on looks no one could tell. Do you speak such a good thai that you can tell if her conversation is inteligent or not. If the conversation is in englisch she has at least the excuse that it is not her mother tongue (so do I). BTW, Isaan girls are in average not more stupid or inteligent then we westerners. They might have a leak on school education (normaly 6 years) but this does not say anything about their IQ. Quote: "any social area and not stand out" - this is ridiculous! Bring her to some business meeting and she will stand out (single most important difference from everybody else: skin colour) - so would a peasant girl or a construction worker. So here I understand Luis. Of course she will stay out, surrounded by falangs, because she is Thai. But she will get integrated as far as it is not a meeting of the Ku klux clan. and further in the quote: The usual reasoning goes like this: a low class and/or dark skinned TG with a farang must be a prostitute. Most Thais see it this way, and more sophisticated reasoning is considered unnecessary - but it is quite possible. Â Yes, this is ridiculuous. The only point you are right is that most Isaan ladies with a farang come mostly (not all) from the venue. But for your general information, what the Isaan ladies make dark is the sun. Take them out and they will look like all other BKK ladies after 1 year. And what the hell means low class: are farmers low class where you come from or are we referring to KKC. Sorry I get tired to comment the rest of BS quoted. Just one thing more: you are guests in this lovely country and you should take more care about what you say about a big group of people working hard and living in this land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 I was trying to explain how *Thais* in Thailand figure out who is a BG.Farangs are often not very good at it. (And the business meeting I was talking about would be a meeting in Thailand with Thais - and that's where she would stand out.) Â quote: The reason why people might believe she's a bg is just the fact that she's with a farang. this means the same to me as what I said: quote: The usual reasoning goes like this: a low class and/or dark skinned TG with a farang must be a prostitute. Low class in Thailand means poor farmers and labourers. quote: what the Isaan ladies make dark is the sun. Take them out and they will look like all other BKK ladies after 1 year. Wrong. (My GF would be so happy if this were true! But "unfortunately" she has a "ugly black" skin even after many years in BKK) Â quote: In most scenarios even if you "dress a bg up" so that she does not look like a bg most people will still detect she is a bg by her actions and reactions to certain situations.... This might be the case in a minority of cases, but to quote this as normal is just not true. Wrong. This is how Thais see (with more or less success) who is a BG. And they think it's funny (or a loss of face) that farangs seem to think you can't see it! [ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: iuytrede ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Post deleted by BKKFREAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Nothing has been said to change my point of view. I'm not denying that if you dress up a bargirl and take her out that most people (thai and farang) will still think she is a bargirl. But the main reason they will think so is because they are narrow-minded, elitist, and even racist. IF you take out a waitress or maid who has never accepted a satang for sex you will get the same assumptions. Gutter language in Thai, BG English (quite different from the broken English of a student or a secretary), physical expression of affection in public, no modesty like a good Thai girl, looking and smiling at every farang - the last 2 points are probably the most important ones These are gross generalizations. Granted that if all that behavior took place, then it would look very bad. Maybe you're hanging out in different places than I am, but even IN the bars I find only a fraction of the girls act the way you describe. It's hard to make eye contact with most of the agogo dancers on stage and you think they are going to be batting their eyelashes at every farang in the Oriental lobby? And on which day is it that the simple Isaan girl turns into the obscenity hurling bargirl who can't keep her hands and eyes off every farang? The first time they accept a barfine they are forced to give up all the manners and behavior they learned growing up? And most of the things you mentioned are why it's often a lot less fun taking out a non-bargirl in Bangkok. Much of their inhibited behavior is not because they don't want to enjoy themselves, but they are petrified of being mistaken for a bargirl. This is just self-reinforcing behavior and is not good for anyone. I've never said that you can just take the girl shooting darts out of her twat straight to the embassy waltz. But you can (and should) feel free to take many bargirls (dressed appropriately) to whichever restaurants, clubs, hotels, etc. you desire. Your behavior and actions will probably be more telling than hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Wouw, I can't say it better (I really can't at least in english). Thank's a lot Farangdang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckrisg Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 BKKFREAK I am not referring or suggesting that Thai Girls are stupid, my g/f is very intelligent and street wise however her knowledge and interest in things outside of Thailand is minimal. It was not meant as an insult. Luis regarding social areas in BKK my g/f has been with myself to top restaurants, social events held by my company when I was in BKK and has mixed with Thais at all levels without problems. I think that it is a very small percentage of bar girls who act like trash outside of the bar scene. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Iuytrede I've gotta give U credit on this one. I'm afraid BKKfreak and Farangdang,U're lacking of knowledge about the place.BKKfreak already stating the girl will stand out because she'll be surrounded with farangs was a gross mistake.The argument is more about how to get her out among higer class thais.I don't feel all that accepted in many places with my middle class GF,and it would probably worse with a dark Isaan one.I know several who just don't know to thai discos because they feel like beeing treated like shit BKKfreak if U could get Ur wife up to running a tourist business properly and she picked enough information to follow a conversation in a proper restaurant,I'm both impressed and glad for U.I don't doubt a second that with a better education Isaan Farmers would be interesting but anyway Thailand is not very famous for giving people respect according to their abilities.Find it difficult so far to find many discussions topics to follow with them(BTW yes I can understand enough thai to go beyond the basic BG stuff) Would be nice if this thread could go a bit further without personnal attack(wich i kind of doubt...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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