'25' legal age urged

[Neo]

Find a go go girl under 20 (say, 19) who likes to drink. Order her a drink. See if she has any problems getting that drink.

 

If she really is 19 (note some lie about being younger than they are) and is discovered, the bar may be shut down or face other consequences. As can be witnessed, no one publicly announces a bar with 19's on its staff due to enforcement.

 

And that is all the evidence you need to show that your claims about enforcement of current law is wrong.

 

No, you are wrong and don't misquote me like this. I didn't say enforcement is foolproof or that there are no exceptions, but rather that there are checks at places of any size, there are crackdowns, and there are tough consequences.

 

There are plenty of examples of the laws being enforced quite well. I have observed BG's out of work due to age and seen thai's denied entrance at the disco's. In the last 5 years, they have been getting tougher and extending their reach further. I don't know why you are downplaying enforcement because it's plain as day.

 

[Guest]

Gadfly:

 

And that is all the evidence you need to show that your claims about enforcement of current law is wrong.

 

Neo:

 

No, you are wrong and don't misquote me like this. I didn't say enforcement is foolproof or that there are no exceptions, but rather that there are checks at places of any size, there are crackdowns, and there are tough consequences.

I didn't misquote you. And how am I wrong? I provided a clear example of how the law is applied selectively that virtually anyone here can verify on any night of the week. And you can test this by going to your favorite bar in NEP, Soi Cowboy, Pattaya or wherever. It's not often that science is this much fun or easy.

 

The fact that some places check IDs while many others do not undercuts rather than supports your argument. It demonstrates that the law is being applied selectively and that it is not stopping the targetting activity. It is an example of how these sorts of laws don't work.

 

Want another? Early closings. Sure the go go bars close at 2 am (but wait, I thought it was supposed to be 1 am?), but walk down Sukhumvit. The party continues on the street where things are much harder to control. Or ask one of the taxi drivers lurking at the entrance to NEP at 2 am - they'll know where to find an afterhours place. Or walk down Soi 4 a bit. How do these places stay open later?

 

We all know the answer. Money is paid; corrupt officials prosper. That is what happens with these sorts of laws in Thailand. They don't stop the targetted behavior (or even significantly reduce it), but they do fuel corruption. That is the point here: these sorts of laws in Thailand don't work even if you agree with the policy objective; instead, they deflect attention from more sensible measures and create additional opportunities for corruption.

[Bangkoktraveler]

On one of the holidays, this year, in which the bars where close and the selling of alchol was not allowed, some of the wife's family went into Foodland and purchased a case of beer. Time, about 4:00 AM. The one purchasing was 16.

 

No problems.

As you can see, no laws were broken therefore no enforcement was required. That's Thailand.

[Guest]

On one of the holidays, this year, in which the bars where close and the selling of alchol was not allowed, some of the wife's family went into Foodland and purchased a case of beer. Time, about 4:00 AM. The one purchasing was 16.

 

No problems.

That is Thailand. If you venture outside the tourist venues and go, say, to a small to mid-size Thai venues up-country or even within Bangkok, you can see how strictly (NOT) these laws are enforced. Even in places such as Pattaya (a tourist) venue, the law is enforced very unevenly.

 

These "new social policy" type of laws are always enforced selectively and have adverse unintended consequences. Neo is right about large high profile places, particularly in Bangkok, getting hit. Tourist venues also get hit, particularly in Bangkok. But these places are the exceptions; not the other way around.

 

Even when the top politicians are acting with the best of intentions (at best they are usually acting with mixed motives, but let's give them the benefit of doubt), there are limits to what they can do. There are geographic limits. Pattaya is only a scant 2 hours outside of Bangkok, but has consistently been much more relaxed than Bangkok since the crackdowns of the current government began 5 years or so ago. During the height of the new social order, they brought in special police from Bangkok to enforce the new social order rules in Pattaya. You have to wonder why?

 

And you have to wonder, as a practical matter, how long can they do that? They can make special high profile raids and have those raids televised (see the bad Farangs), but you can't bring special police commandos down from Bangkok every night. And they won't; Pattaya generates too much money. It's a tremendous and counterproductive waste of resources.

 

And take a look at disco closing times in Phuket. Last I was there, they didn't close until early morning. When I'd finally leave around 4 am, there were still more people coming in then going out. You can do a few high profile raids there, but, like Pattaya, it's a waste of resources and counterproductive.

 

And the real problems are in the smaller Thai venues that hardly any of us see. There it is strictly local rules. That is where you find the real underage drinking and drug problems. New laws and regulations coming from the central government are either ignored or used as excuses to increased required bribes.

 

These type of laws can and do create problems for Farangs and can do tremendous damage the tourism industry - at a time when everyone agrees the Thai economy is contracting - but they don't even come close to solving the underlying problems they are supposed to solve. Indeed, they make things worse.

[Flashermac]

Plenty of small shops in my neighbourhood where I can buy booze when the government says I can't.

 

Then again, show me the effing law that established those stupid liquor purchasing hours! There is none ... just a "proclamation" by a military coup "government" maybe 30 years ago. And the courts have already said such proclamations and decrees have no legal validity. But tell that to Mr T and Company.