Please Don't Think for Yourself (Thai School)

[the_numbers]

I just stumbled across a very articulate article regarding the pratfalls of getting an Southeast Asian education : http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/16/news/riedthai.php

 

 

I raise it in general discussion because it ties into old questions raised on the board about how "Thais" are different along with some of their neighbors.

 

"We didn't learn how to express our ideas," she recalled of her days in Thailand's national school system. "We learned from our teachers that we're not supposed to stand in front of the public and say anything." QUOTE from the article.

 

This article is the underpinning of a system that defines roles in the workplace, and otherwise, particularly for many Thais and Malaysians who even if wealthy and with a master's degree have never really traveled abroad, studied abroad, or ventured further than Singapore or Australia on holiday.

 

Even Thais who do the fashionable thing these days and get their Master's Degree abroad often remain trapped by this educational primary training.

 

I'm sure others have noticed it is fashionable these days to get a one year master's abroad from "hi class Thais" even if it's at unheard of universities like the University of Western Kentucky Annex or East Liverpool College for the Blind

 

It doesn't matter they just shuffle through and keep alot of this mentality... latent. The school issue is a big one and it needs changing to vitalize the country. You have to teach people to lead in economics, art, business, and all other fields. I'm sure schooling is something alot of expats lament if they are not sending their kids to ISB or Harrow's.

 

Cheers,

 

TheNumbers

 

[Fixed the URL - KS]

 

[Vintage_Kwai]

I'm sure schooling is something alot of expats lament if they are not sending their kids to ISB or Harrow's.

 

If the kids get sent to schools like these, they come out with an even bigger attitude problem.

 

There are some decent schools that run 'English programs' - the curriculm is totally in English and some do have dedicated farang teachers. A lot also depends on the parents' attitude and participation. You do pay more, but the fees are not as ridiculous as some of the 'international' schools want to charge.

 

Stickman has had a lot to say on his website, maybe he'll chime in a bit later?

[the_numbers]

I know a few ISB brats who've reached maturity now, and are working around town or mucking about. I like a few of them pretty well, and they skate around without the "sense of entitlement".

 

 

Point well taken though VKwai. It is too bad if you have to choose between a mediocre education for kids, or sending them to some snob infested private hell...

 

Cheers,

 

theNumbers

[Flashermac]

A few years back, a Thai archan told me she had heard from her students how much they like one of my classes. The archan asked if she could sit in on my class some time. I wasn't too sure about that, but I agreed anyway.

 

The next week the archan came in and sat in the rear of the classroom. After about half an hour, she stood up and stomped out of the room. I remember thinking, "Oh, fark ... what have I done now?"

 

That afternoon the archan came to see me and told me my students were simply terrible! They asked questions, challenged my statements, argued with me, spoke out of turn etc. They had no respect for me! I tried to explain that it had taken me about 3 weeks to get them that way. They were actually interacting and THINKING FOR THEMSELVES.

 

Apparently, that is a big no no with older Thai teachers/lecturers. Good students should sit quietly and absorb like a sponge.

 

 

 

p.s. I have taught graduates of ISB, Ruamrudee etc. They may speak very fluent English with a North American accent, but when you get them reading and trying to discuss something you will find their vocabulary leaves a lot to be desired. I'd call them superficially educated -- better than the Thai secondary school grads, but still well below western standards. I only encountered one international school grad whose Thai was good enough to pass the government university entrance exam. The students invariably have to enter an all English language international degree programme here.

 

 

[the_numbers]

All good valid points. What did you think of the article Flashermac in relation to the things you brought up?

 

I for one emphathize with the parents who realise their kids aren't getting the meat and potatoes of being a critical thinker. Some expats get fed up with that and send their kids back home to finish up school

 

I think ND said he was planning to send his nippers back to Oz at some point to finish school? If I remember correctly.

 

Cheers,

 

theNumbers

[Nervous_Dog]

<>

 

Correct

[Dumsoda]

Be careful K.Dog....

There's people like me & Bust roaming the streets of Oz.....well sometimes...when we're not in LOS...or elsewhere

 

Only joking.... Leung DS will always be there to help ...(if needed)

 

P.S. Good idea....half of Asia can't be wrong!!

Cheers DS

 

[Flashermac]

Umm ... isn't ND a product of Oz schools? Surely they didn't teach him to spell like that!

 

 

 

[Gadfly]

I see the end results of the Thai educational system (my staff), and I am not at all surprised.

 

Let me give one example (I can give plently): if I ask a Thai colleague for his or her opinion on something, particularly if she or he doesn't know me well, they will quietly defer expressing a view until talking to a more senior Thai or group of Thais to make sure his or her view is "correct" - or the correct view that should be provided to a Farang manager. The process is shrouded in misdirection and creates a host of problems. I may or may not accept their view depending upon the ratiaonle and arguments they provide to support that position (more about that later), but I will listen and consider it because I need it quickly. Instead, however, I generally get a vague comment, and then, a day or two after the decision has been made a we have moved on to to other more pressing issues, a memorandum (in poor English) that may or may not coincide, and often directly contradicts, the vague comment. There are exceptions, and those exceptions will rise in a business that operates on a Western business model, but they are few and far between.

 

Business moves quickly and mistakes are made. It moves more quickly now everywhere, Thailand included, than it did 12 years ago when I first came here. The Thai "system" (I can't think of a better word) is ill suited to the demands of modern business.

 

This system creates a vicious cycle. You don't become good at making decision unless you have experience making decisions. It sounds cliche, but you do learn by making mistakes. In the Thai system, you don't get this experience. Mistakes are avoided at all costs by making no decisions. You rise up through the ranks, particularly if you have the right family connections, until one day you make the decisions. But because you don't have much experience, and face is so important, you become a capricious and arbitrary decision maker. You become the typical "Chinese boss". Damn anyone who challenges you for major blunders - and few Thais will, at least publically. This is why so many Thai businesses find it so hard to compete against foreign controlled and operated businesses.

 

I am convinced that this system also fuels Thai ambivalence about globalization. The world is moving faster and business definitely requires quicker decisions. Five years from now it will be more challenging than it is today. The Thai simply system doesn't equip its managers to meet these requirments and demands. On the other hand, Thailand's GDP is about 60-70% based on exports; the Thai economy highly globalized and will remain so (unless they decided to follow the "Burmese" path to development). This is why you get these muddled and ambivalent statements from Thai leaders about globalization and market based reforms.

 

If you put a Western educated Thai - and I am not talking about an MBA from Kentucky Annex college, but someone who went to school in the US from a very young age and excelled and got her graduate degreee from, say, the University of Chicago or Columbia - she will act like an American and can make an excellent manager. But not in Thailand. In Thailand there will tremendous pressure on her to act like a Thai. Her "colleagues" will constantly try to trip her up and she will be the subject of constant resentment. It will get ridiculously petty, it will get to her, and she will flee back to the US or someother places where business practices are based on merit rather than status. I have seen this happen before.

[WorldFun]

so flasher did you have to go back & make your students 'polite' again?