Gang crackdown in LA???

[chuckwoww]

Shootings are quite unusual in Canada. There have been policemen killed from time to time, usually drug related. Most other shootings seem to be gang related...West Indians in Toronto, Vietnamese and Indo-Canadians in Vancouver. Ordinary citizens are hardly ever affected and home invasion is rare.

[chuckwoww]

I would think that Dr. Shipman character bumped the statistics up a bit and he used morphine.

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:red]

"Air marshals and police officers are trained to deal with those situations. Safely I'm sure. I thought you were suggesting that ordinary citizens should be armed at all times."

[/color]

 

Air marshals are trained but the police are not trained for such events. From what I have read, air marshals use regular loads which I would find very dangerous on a plane. If they used low velocity ammo I would not have problems with this. As for the police, they just have police training and no training as to how to handle a situation on a plane.

 

 

 

Now regarding citizens carrying guns on a plane:

Imagine having a concealed carry weapons permit and you are one on one of the planes that had been hiacked 9/11/01 and the plane is headed for one of the world trade center buildings.

 

 

Would you wish you had your gun? Or would you feel this is the way things are suppose to be and just continue watching the movie that is playing?

 

Now if you had a gun, you might be able to change what would later become the final outcome. Maybe some other passengers might help you also. Instead of dying, you might even become a hero.

 

 

As for carrying a gun on an airplane, the person would have to provide identification such as a concealed weapons permit with picture ID and your ammo would be replaced with low velocity ammo.

 

You might object to this because the criminals would also have guns, but if you reexamine the events of 9/11/01, the criminals got aboard with knives and pepper spray/tear gas. There are some reports that before the planes crashed, one of the first persons murdered was a retired Israeli commando. He was seated around where the terrorist were seated. There were a few reports that a stewardess called from the plane a few times saying the man was shot with a gun. We are led to believe that the terrorist carried the weapons aboard the planes but there is a possibility that the weapons were picked up between the security stations and the plane. If this is true, then weapons once more could be picked up this same way because airport personel are not searched like we are.

 

We are led to believe that this kind of thinking is really stupid but imagine being in a stagecoach back in the 1800's and the stageoach is being attacked by Indians. Would the Indians leave because you and other passengers are shooting back at the Indians or would they leave after you and everybody else is dead because nobody wanted to put up any kind of defence?

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Imagine having a concealed carry weapons permit and you are one on one of the planes that had been hiacked 9/11/01 and the plane is headed for one of the world trade center buildings.

 

Would you wish you had your gun? Or would you feel this is the way things are suppose to be and just continue watching the movie that is playing?

 

Now if you had a gun, you might be able to change what would later become the final outcome. Maybe some other passengers might help you also. Instead of dying, you might even become a hero.

 

As for carrying a gun on an airplane, the person would have to provide identification such as a concealed weapons permit with picture ID and your ammo would be replaced with low velocity ammo.

 

You might object to this because the criminals would also have guns, but if you reexamine the events of 9/11/01, the criminals got aboard with knives and pepper spray/tear gas. There are some reports that before the planes crashed, one of the first persons murdered was a retired Israeli commando. He was seated around where the terrorist were seated. There were a few reports that a stewardess called from the plane a few times saying the man was shot with a gun. We are led to believe that the terrorist carried the weapons aboard the planes but there is a possibility that the weapons were picked up between the security stations and the plane. If this is true, then weapons once more could be picked up this same way because airport personel are not searched like we are.

 

We are led to believe that this kind of thinking is really stupid but imagine being in a stagecoach back in the 1800's and the stageoach is being attacked by Indians. Would the Indians leave because you and other passengers are shooting back at the Indians or would they leave after you and everybody else is dead because nobody wanted to put up any kind of defence?

 

 

I expect the average gun owner in that situation would pull the trigger. What about the terrorists barricaded in the cockpit with the dead pilot?

 

So many variables with that scenario. How many hijackers? How are they armed? Where are they standing?

 

I saw the movie where the passengers were sort of paralysed for a long time then they finally decided to rush the cockpit. A last desperate act really because none of them knew how to fly an airliner. But they tried I guess. I like to think I would have done the same thing.

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:red]"I expect the average gun owner in that situation would pull the trigger. What about the terrorists barricaded in the cockpit with the dead pilot?" [/color]

 

As for terrorist in the cockpit, there are now secured doors that are spposed to be closed, so this should not happen.

 

But then, every time I board United, the doors are always open. It is like some people never learn.

 

As for pulling the trigger, in the State I live in, pulling out a weapon because you are afraid is against the law. The only time a weapon can be used is if you are going to shot something. If the something is a person, that can only be done if it is clear your life is in jeopardy. Pulling a gun on somebody because you don't know who they are, etc. is against the law.

 

If all citizens (men and women) had to spend 2 years in the military, had some civic responsibilities and the ammo on airplanes was replaced with low velocity ammo, you probably would see people retaking over what is rightfully theirs and the thieving bastards moving to some other place where they can feed on prey that are easy targets.

[chuckwoww]

My sense is some people could have ordnance coming out the wazoo and they'll never feel secure.

[Bangkoktraveler]

That is what we are taught, but there are some contries were the citizens do have civic responsibility to serve in the military for a short period of time and to be able to bear arms.

 

I believe Switzerland fits that category. I would say their gang activity is probably non existent.

 

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

I think they have biker gangs in Switzerland but nothing on the scale of the black and latino gangs in LA. The crime rate is quite low there I believe but I don't know if that's because people keep guns or not.

 

I'm not sure why you keep comparing the US with other countries. Guns and violence seem to be almost endemic in the US for some reason. Gun movies, gun collectors, gun shows, gun racks, gun clubs, guns, guns, guns. I don't think any country comes close for gun culture.

 

Also I'm not clear exactly what your point is. You think more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens would mean less crime is that it?

[Julian2]

Probably got more to do with things like low unemployment, higher standard of education, realistic approach to drug addiction and higher self esteem.

I hate getting back to stats but the crime rate goes down with unemployment, most younger criminals offend because it puts some excitement in their lives. Deterrents are useless because they increase the excitement, make a real 'us against the' scenario and a 'them got guns, we get better ones' attitude.

I'd like to see how many older gangbangers actual have military service. They go into the army, come out thinking life will be different and it's not.

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:red]"I hate getting back to stats but the crime rate goes down with unemployment, most younger criminals offend because it puts some excitement in their lives. Deterrents are useless because they increase the excitement, make a real 'us against the' scenario and a 'them got guns, we get better ones' attitude."[/color]

 

 

Speak to a gang banger some day and ask him who does he prefer to fuck around with, [color:red]"a person they know has a gun and knows how to use it or somebody that is defenseless?"[/color]

 

You might be surprised what the answer is. Actually ask 100 gang bangers that same question and then you would have some statistical data.