What is going on in Pattaya

[WorldFun]

murder or fatal road accident statistics is all just numbers, while personal experiences seems to be what most can relate to the best.

 

I have no doubts that Thailand is one of the more dangerous places to live in Asia or even globally, but on a personal level I like most have no direct murder or lethal accident experiences in any country to relate to so tend to like the idea that people dying prematurely have only themselves or stupidity to blame right?

 

Furthermore adding the tropical paradise feeling that many associate with LOS don't really allow bad ratings like murders, crime, violence etc to blend in!

 

However as Singapore's slogan go: "Low crime doesn't mean no crime" actually applies well across the board

 

So for me violent dangerous places I imagine must be places I heard about but never been like Brazil, Columbia, South Africa(or anywhere in Africa I suppose outside of Marocco?!), Middle east etc!

 

Where I really worried in LOS was in traffic & I suppose I still do at times, but after getting my own wheels it really does not seem that ridiculous dangerous anymore - at least not all the time (if playing by the local rules)!!

 

Take care

[Faustian]

Cent, bang on....

 

I've not seen much violence, but then I'm a big fucker and built like a brick shithouse....a fool would mess with me. I've seen plenty of westerners being dickheads wherever i've roamed. Not had any grief from Thais, but then I assume that's because they have a survival instinct intact. I guess i've led a charmed life.

 

Seen plenty of RTAs in LOS...saw very few in the UK. I've seen a lot of young men dead from motorcycle accidents here, never saw such things in the UK...my first dead body was an ecstasy victim at a club, back in 1996, in London. Seen far too many since, such things haunt me in moments of solitude.

 

Was in Pattaya recently, taking in the sights, the local paper was a sight to behold...headlines of death and destruction....but then it's high season, so there's an abundance of fuckwits about.

 

 

[Gadfly]

The level of rancor the subject of violence in Thailand brings up is curious. I see it as related to the level of self-deception you see here about Thailand, but letâ??s deal with that in a separate thread because I think the subject Stickman raised deserves its own thread.

 

Contrary to SDâ??s suggestion, I did not grow up in Mayberry RFD; but nonetheless I never saw dead guys â??rolled up in a carpet and stuffed into the back of a burning hatchback in the alley behind my house...â? My experience was more like Shygyeâ??s, and I suspect that is true of most of us here.

 

Statistics can be derided because they inconviently reveal that Thailand is clearly much more dangerous in terms of homicides than the US, but that doesn't change the facts. Indeed, I think those statistics understate the gap between (a) the level of violence where most of the Americans here likely grew up and live now (if they are in the US) and ( the level of violence in Thailand for two reasons.

 

First, Thai statistics understate the level of homicides. Forensic specialists and Thai senior Thai officials readily admit this. US statistics are only estimates, but they will be more reliable and will not contain a substantial and systematic bias in favor of understating homicide rates. Thai statistics do.

 

Second, I strongly suspect most Americans who visit and live in Thailand grew up and live in average middle to upper middle class neighborhoods. Most of the ex-pats I have met fall into the category, as do most of the tourists I have met (think about the people you meet travelling here). I also think it is true of most posters here, although they may posture otherwise.

 

You can test this and see who is spinning tales here â?? SD or me - easily be looking at where you grew up and asking yourself: was a dead guy â??rolled up in a carpet and stuffed into the back of a burning hatchback in the alley behind my houseâ? something typical of where you grew up? My guess â?? it was not.

 

Or think about the people you have met here in Thailand. Sure, lots of dodgy characters, but how many gangsters from the inner cities of the US have you met in Thailand?

 

If I am right on this second point, and I am pretty sure I am, the neighborhood where you grew up in and live in the US (fellow American members of this site) is much safer than Thailand. Bear in mind that the level of violence in most of the US â?? and I am talking about average middle and upper middle class neighborhoods (not Mayberry RFD) where you likely live â?? is much lower than the US average. (The average is driven up by a few extremely violent locales in the US.) It logically follows from this that Thailand is likely much more dangerous than where most members on this board grew up and (for those who live in the US) live now. Simple logic.

 

[Old Hippie]

Crime in the USA is a weird thing. I grew up in a lower class/working class neighborhood, which saw a share of violence, yet murders were very rare.They did happen, but usually as part of another crime, like a drug deal, or (usually) a robbery. Gangs were present, but not anything like they became in L.A.

 

I said that to say this, my adopted sister lives in an affluent suburb of Philadelphia, and guess what? they have murders and crimes...maybe more so then I saw in the Mission district of SFO...so the local does make the difference.

 

Regarding crime in Thailand. I used to be in the camp that said Thailand was basically a safe place for farangs. I am now in the process of re evaluating that. While I still maintain that many victims play a part in their own problems with Thais, I do think things are changing, and not for the better.

 

My other observation is, I think the type/quality of tourist to LOS has also changed over the years, and again, maybe not for the better.

[Guest lazyphil]

off topic, well country, one of my daughters best friends at school has argentinian parents (micro biologists), i got talking (i dont talk about the war!!) about safety if argentina, she, the mother said it is very very unsafe in argentina and so many tourists are under the illusion its a more stable and safer travel destination in latin america. she feels much much happier and safer here.