Wat a controversy!

[Flashermac]

Bangkok Post

9 Jun 2008

 

 

The Democrat party has urged the government not to rush to support Cambodia's attempt to register Preah Vihear temple as a new World Heritage Site.

 

Democrat deputy leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot said on Sunday that the government should think carefully before backing the Cambodian effort.

 

He was speaking after Phnom Penh redrew the boundaries of the ancient temple site to convince the United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (Unesco) that it now deserved to be put on the World Heritage list. The old map, which was opposed by Thailand, included overlapping areas.

 

[color:red]Mr Alongkorn said that by supporting Cambodia on the issue, Thailand would automatically lose its right to reclaim sovereignty over Preah Vihear in the future.[/color]

 

[color:red]On June 15, 1962, the International Court of Justice ruled the ancient temple belonged to Cambodia. Mr Alongkorn said the ruling was unfair and not based on law. [/color]

 

The Treaty of Versailles stipulated later that the demarcation of the disputed areas was questionable, and that was why Thailand wrote to the United Nations secretary-general on July 3, 1962, saying it reserves the right to reclaim the ancient temple in the future, he said.

 

"The present government has no right to either sell or reclaim Thai sovereignty in this case. Next week, I hope, the National Security Council (NSC) and cabinet will review the issue. Otherwise, it would be a shame and tantamount to betraying the nation and selling Thai sovereignty to another country," Mr Alongkorn said.

 

He suspects vested interests are behind the move to support Cambodia on the listing.

 

Mr Alongkorn suggested the government oppose the listing and ask Unesco's World Heritage Committee to drop the issue from the agenda of its July 2-10 meeting in Quebec.

 

The new Cambodian map will be discussed at the NSC's weekly meeting today. If the NSC approves the map, cabinet is likely to endorse the map tomorrow.

 

 

[Flashermac]

THE NATION

19 Jun 2008

 

 

Cambodia not claiming any Thai land: Noppadon

 

 

Thailand has not lost a single square centimetre, as the new map drawn up by Cambodia to propose the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear as a World Heritage site claims nothing beyond its right, Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama said yesterday.

 

Cambodia honoured an agreement reached in Paris last month to propose only the temple and did not include the overlapping area claimed by both sides, Noppadon told a press conference yesterday.

 

Thousands of protesters earlier marched to the Foreign Ministry accusing the minister of losing territory to Cambodia and demanding he resign.

 

They believe Noppadon made a deal with Cambodia to help ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's business interests. They called on civil servants at the ministry to resist Noppadon.

 

Lt-General Daen Meechu-at, chief of the Supreme Command's Royal Thai Survey Department and who also attended the press conference, said a ground survey conducted from June 9-11 using a satellite based Global Positioning System indicated the new map did not claim any part of Thai territory. The nearest point, the left corner of the temple, is 3 metres away from Thai territory, while the farthest point is 30 metres away, he said.

 

"The questioned naga stairs is 10 metres away from the Thai boundary," he said, "I confirm there is no part of Cambodia's claim on Thai soil."

 

The Foreign Ministry later released the map to the public on its website.

 

Noppadon has signed a joint statement with Cambodian Deputy Prime Minister Sok An on the matter, enabling Phnom Penh to submit its proposal for consideration of Unesco's World Heritage committee. The committee will make its final decision next month at a meeting in Quebec.

 

The International Court of Justice ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear Temple belonged to Cambodia.

 

Link

 

[Flashermac]

Bangkok Post

19 June 2008

 

 

Not one square centimetre

 

 

 

Several thousand protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy gathered at the foreign ministry on Wednesday to accuse minister Noppadon Pattama and his old boss Thaksin Shinawatra with yielding land around the Preah Vihear temple to Cambodia.

 

An estimated 5,000 PAD protesters gathered in front of the ministry. They accused Mr Noppadon of trading the temple land for business concessions, and carried signs blaming Mr Thaksin.

 

The Preah Vihear temple, dating back to the 11th century, has been the subject of a boundary dispute since the 1950s. The International Court of Justice ruled in 1962 that the cliffside temple was within Cambodian territory.

 

Accusing the government of corruption and abuse of power, demonstrators have been holding sometimes violent protests since May 25 to demand the resignation of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and his coalition government.

 

The protesters say Mr Samak is merely acting as a proxy for Mr Thaksin.

 

The political discord heightened Wednesday after opposition Democrat Party lawmakers lodged a no-confidence motion against Mr Samak and seven other Cabinet members over alleged conflict of interest and mismanagement.

 

The Preah Vihear temple issue resurfaced as Cambodia was preparing to apply to Unesco for the temple to be listed as a World Heritage Site, a process that requires the inclusion of a map.

 

PAD core founder Sondhi Limthongkul alleged that Mr Noppadon gave up some territory near the temple in exchange for his "boss" - Mr Thaksin - getting concessions to develop a casino complex on Cambodia's Koh Kong island.

 

[color:red]Mr Noppadon served as Mr Thaksin's lawyer and continues to have close ties with him. [/color]

 

Waving Thai flags, the protesters held up placards reading, "Thailand is not for sale", and "Bandit government sold Thai soil to Cambodia." Mr Noppadon denied the allegations.

 

"The minister of foreign affairs deserves flowers instead of brickbats," Mr Noppadon said, adding that "not a single square centimetre" of Thai soil was lost during recent negotiations with Cambodia.

 

He said Cambodia had drawn up two maps, one of the temple and the other of the adjacent area.

 

Mr Noppadon said the Cambodians will present only the temple map in their upcoming request to Unesco. The second map, which includes the disputed boundary, will not be an issue and thus Thailand has not yielded any territory, he said.

 

 

Link

 

 

[Flashermac]

[color:red]Liar, liar[/color]

Bangkok Post

25 Jun 2008

 

 

Opposition and Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday charged that the government was bent on misleading the public by distorting information over the Preah Vihear temple.

 

Mr Abhisit also called on fellow MPs to cast votes of no-confidence against Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama in a bid to preserve Thailand's sovereignty which he said had virtually been given up when the cabinet on June 17 endorsed Cambodia's map of the ancient temple and the joint statement over it.

 

The documents will be used by Phnom Penh to have World Heritage Committee members under the United Nations Scientific, Educational and Cultural Organisation (Unesco) consider its bid for the temple to gain World Heritage site status. The committee meeting starts on July 2 in Quebec.

 

Mr Noppadon said Thailand planned to separately propose that the Sra Trao reservoir and other ancient structures relating to Preah Vihear, be listed. But he said this plan could not be completed in time for the Quebec meeting.

 

He denied the idea was aimed at deflecting pressure from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy and those criticising Thailand's support for Cambodia's attempt to gain World Heritage status for Preah Vihear.

 

MPs will vote in the no-confidence debate tomorrow.

 

In the two-day censure debate which kicked off yesterday, [color:blue]Mr Abhisit accused the government of distorting the truth when it claimed the Thai team of lawyers accepted Cambodia's map in the 1962 legal battle over the temple in the International Courts of Justice.

 

Mr Abhisit said the Thai lawyers, led by the late M.R. Seni Pramoj, had never accepted Cambodia's map presented to the World Court in The Hague.

 

He said the court ruled in favour of Cambodia on the grounds that Thailand never protested against Cambodia's map until the dispute was brought to the court.

 

"The court then ruled that Thailand's failure to protest against [Cambodia's] map was tantamount to legal acceptance of the map. Fortunately, the court never touched on border disputes," he said.

 

Mr Abhisit said that shortly after the court's ruling in 1962 the Thai government issued a statement in which it said it would reserve the right to seek a review while observing the court's ruling.

 

He said the government's statement showed Thailand's intention to seek the return of the Preah Vihear temple when the opportunity arose. [/color]

 

The current administration's endorsement of the Cambodian map was giving up the rights that Thailand had always upheld, he said.

 

Mr Abhisit also lambasted the government for its failure to seek parliamentary approval before it signed a joint statement with Cambodia over the proposed listing of the temple.

 

He said the government exceeded its power in doing so and was in violation of Article 190 of the constitution as the joint statement would have an impact on the country's sovereignty.

 

Mr Noppadon on June 18 signed the joint statement with Cambodian Deputy Prime Minister Sok An.

 

Mr Noppadon and Foreign Ministry legal experts have argued that the joint statement did not need parliament's endorsement because it will have no effect on Thai sovereignty or territory.

 

In his defence last night, Mr Noppadon said the ministry closely consulted the armed forces before deciding to endorse the Cambodian map. There was no conflict of interest behind the Thai government's decision, he added.

 

The prime minister stressed that the temple belonged to Cambodia which had the right to seek the temple's listing.

 

Thailand, on the other hand, had succeeded in persuading Cambodia to list only the temple, not the 4.6 sq km overlapping area, he said, noting that it was important to maintain a healthy relationship with Phnom Penh.

 

Mr Samak said the Preah Vihear temple had become a controversial issue as intended by some politicians.

 

He warned that if it was allowed to be politicised further, it would sour the Thai-Cambodian ties and it was worrying Thai people living in Cambodia.

 

"I can tell you the stir-up is successful. Don't you know Thai people over there can't sleep?" the prime minister said.

 

He also said the Democrats were irresponsible in playing the nationalistic card at the expense of bilateral relations.

 

 

 

 

[Barry]

Wasn't the temple built by Cambodians at a time when the land was in the Khmer empire?

Why would the Thais care so much about it?

[Flashermac]

1) The temple was built by the locals - the same people as live their now (Isaan Laos for the most part) - who were then under Khmer rule. It's the same as the Roman ruins scattered across western Europe, even into the UK. Imagine if the Italians laid claim to everything built under the Romans in Spain, France, Germany etc.

 

2) The temple was built to serve the Khorat plain. It faces north into Sisaket, which province it was part of ... until 1962. It can only be reached from Cambodia by a long and difficult climb up a sheer cliff.

 

3) It is on the Thai side of the previously agreed upon border. However, the French colonialists deliberately moved the border to include it on their side. Sihanouk discovered the map and immediately laid claim to the temple.

 

4) The Thais are still pissed off about French aggression in the 19th century, sending warships to fight their way up the Chao Phaya River and turning their guns on the Grand Palace to force Rama V to give them anything they wanted. The French occupied Chantaburi province for decades, even after they had agreed to leave. The court decision was seen as more French aggression, since the French supported Sihanouk.

 

Main reason it has been brought up now is the suspicion that Thaksin or his cronies have worked a deal to surrender any remaining Thai claims to Cambodia in return for Cambodia giving up its claims to possible offshore oil field off the tip of southeastern Thailand. For nearly a century the Thai mantra has been "no more surrenders of Thai territory".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Hippie]

Cambodia would have to be insane to give up oil money for a few remaining pieces of dirt, they have the temple, will get UNESCO status, and what not, keep the oil and make the Thais choke...seems logical.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Who owns the land in southeastern Thailand? Especially offshore?

[Flashermac]

There are overlapping claims - as it usual when there might be something worth having. The Cambodians have EXTENDED their claims around the temple, going beyond what was on the French map and claiming the areas once related to the temple. But I feel this is all mainly aimed at embarrassing Mr T more than anything else. Maybe an attempt to turn Isaan folks in that area against Thaksin?

 

 

 

[Flashermac]

Bangkok Post

26 Jun 2008

 

 

Commentary: Nationalistic puppets

 

By Sanitsuda Ekachai

 

 

The PAD has chosen to speak the language which mainstream society understands. Nationalism and royal nationalism whip up the audence like magic.

 

Ultra-nationalism fans anger and hatred while strengthening the false sense of self - everything Buddhism frowns upon.

 

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) boasts of many people well-versed in Buddhism. Yet they have chosen to whip up ultra-nationalism through the Preah Vihear controversy to oust Thaksin Shinawatra's crony government. Why? Because it works like magic.

 

That does not speak well of the PAD, given its claim to be fighting for democracy. Nor of our society.

 

We must ask why our society routinely turns a deaf ear to the cries of injustice from the weak and the poor but never fails to dance to the tune of racist nationalism. The answer may also shed light on why we have failed miserably to redress inequality and to make democracy work.

 

Whether you agree with the PAD or not on the Preah Vihear issue, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is wrong to lambast street protests as undemocratic and illegal.

 

Admit it. Our parliamentary democracy has been reduced to a ballot box game governed by money politics. The bureaucracy has become an autocracy. The judicial process is too long and costly. The laws are written to serve the powers-that-be. Political decentralisation is in fact local mafia rule. The mainstream media favour state and business interests. What choice do people have but to take their causes to the streets?

 

How we respond to these causes, however, reflects what makes us tick and mirrors who we are. The rural poor's plight caused by misguided development that destroys the environment and the local way of life certainly does not make Bangkokians tick.

 

Remember when the city joggers complained against the rural folk who took to Bangkok streets for crowding their park and spoiling their morning exercises? Remember how they complained about the protesters' smell?

 

The result of the poor's protests are mostly empty promises. The authorities continue to drag their feet. The polluting businesses continue to destroy people's health and environment. They can get away with murder because there is a total lack of public moral outrage to pressure for change.

 

Knowing that justice and human rights talk will get their anti-Thaksin protest nowhere, the PAD has chosen to speak the language which mainstream society understands - nationalism and royal nationalism - accusing Mr Thaksin of undermining the monarchy and national sovereignty to strengthen his political and transnational business empires.

 

Grounded or not, the accusations effectively play on the deeply programmed messages in our heads. Brainwashed by our education system, we believe that we are the greatest race in the region, that we used to own much of the Southeast Asian peninsula, that our neighbouring countries are our enemies, and that our history is a series of efforts to save our land. It is why territorial issues never fail to trigger our killer instinct.

 

We need a different kind of history. Understanding the myriad factors that contribute to the rise and fall of ancient civilisations can help undo the nationalist trap. If we realise that geographical changes, new technologies, and the trading of products made by different peoples in the land were the growth engine of a civilisation, not a particular race, change is possible.

 

Had the Thai and Cambodian governments seen Preah Vihear in this context, they would have realised that a transboundary World Heritage site is a win-win solution to promote Southeast Asia's ancient civilisation and a sense of borderless humanity. Sadly, the World Heritage site is seen only as a symbol of face and a ticket to tourism money.

 

If we leave our ultra-nationalist history intact, Preah Vihear will remain a thorn in Thai-Cambodian relations. Politicians, both in Thailand and Cambodia, will readily play the nationalist card to get rid of political rivals, suppress dissent, divert public attention from their violations of human rights, and their failure to make justice and democracy a reality.

 

That is a high price to pay for being trapped in the frenzy of nationalism. We are paying a dear price now in the deep South. Restoring peace will remain difficult unless we tackle the false belief of superiority in our heads.