Old Hippie Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Ok OH, far be it from me to voice an opinion on matters that don't concern me...I will instead resort to neo-con baiting and leave decisions on how you wish to exterminate each other to your good selves. Hey, don't lump me in with the Neo cons, just because I recognize the need to have the tools to protect myself when the police can't. I'll point to the L.A./Rodney King Riots, and point out the only block left standing was protected by armed Koreans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Long-winded I know, but this is my major pet peeve. Really gets my dander up. For anyone who is interested in the Constitution, today is a great day for some self-education..The leftists are in full rout...I wonder whether anyone on this thread will ever again mention "judicial activism"? This was one victory in a deluge of assaults against Constitutional law. Some people aren't even free to smoke in their homes anymore. Not free to speak out in public, for example, against gay marriage (hate speech), being questioned by police and required to give your name--even without just cause, tax court you don't have a right to a trial by jury (so much for that constitutional right), federal hoarding laws (yes, people HAVE been federally prosecuted for having more than 30 days food per person in their homes--so much for grandma canning peaches), police road blocks and random searches, being tried more than once for the same crime (or making one crime into multiple crimes--remember Bernard Getz? The jury acquitted him, so the prosecution tried him on other charges until they got a conviction), seizure of land / property without necessity for public use, the right to issue gold (nothing about a private corporation issuing worthless fiat currency), not collecting tax based on the states % of population (if a state has 5% population, the fed govt can collect no more than 5% of total tax from them--this is in the constitution), no-knock warrants (thanks to our war on drugs--a series of executive orders). Many of these have even been "ok'd" by the Supreme Court. If you are familiar with the Emergency War Powers Act (March 1933), the US has been operating under an "extra constitutional" emergency. This has never been rescinded. The US is run by "public policy". A litany of extra-constitutional jurisdictional directives, executive orders (legislative pronouncements coming from the executive), etc... Some years ago, a fellow (whose name I am trying dearly to remember) did an excellent analysis of this going all the way back to the laws of the seas, common law, and legal justification for making sovereign citizens into subjects. There are HUGE legal differences. Before the emergency war powers, Americans were (and still are) citizens of the STATE they were born in--NOT the federal government. Then, the USA was incorporated, social security numbers were issued (still voluntary but not talked about), along with federal citizenship. I'm a citizen of Texas and The United States. I can rescind my federal citizenship, legally opt out of the system, and still have a right to live / travel into and out of the USA because the federal government's responsibility to honor the states. Some years ago, when the "patriot movement" or "militia movement" or whatever was in full swing, I knew of a guy (known by a friend of mine) who rescinded his federal citizenship; keeping his state citizenship. The feds were watching him for some sort of federal explosives / firearms violation. The feds pulled him over on the interstate, finding a cache of all kinds of weapons and shit in the trunk of his car. Maybe he wasn't going to hurt anyone, but it looked like he could start a small war. It was a goddamn arsenal on wheels. All smug, the feds pull him into court. He drops the "I'm not a federal citizen" bombshell--the judge looks at it and dismisses it coz "he isn't under federal jurisdiction". Fortunately several state laws were in place to keep this nutball behind bars for years and years. The federal government originally had jurisdiction over 10 square miles (Washington D. C. ) hence a district and not state, and some regulation of interstate commerce, tax collection, currency, etc...The idea that the Fed could micro-manage people's lives simply had NO BASIS in constitutional law--the ONLY federal jurisdiction recognized or tolerated. People were truly free back then. It wasn't just "the good old days", it was sovereign citizenship. People don't even know the US is a republic, they refer to it as a democracy (yuck). An old friend of mine is a U.S. attorney (federal prosecutor for the United States Department of Justice). I asked him about the accuracy of what I mentioned above regarding the Emergency War Powers Act. Although more complex and involved, he said I got the basic idea right, and was shocked that I was even aware of this. He said it's not the kind of thing anyone at the federal level ever talks about and strongly suggested I not make a major issue of it. I suppose that means that publicly opposing this is just cause for further federal probing. If I can remember that guy's name that did the comprehensive analysis and find anything worthwhile on him, I'll put a link here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Howdy OH: What about people who can't afford to move out of high crime areas? And yes, people have the right to defend/protect themselves! Some years ago, something interesting hit the news. Down south of you, on the LA beaches, the US military was practicing a landing assault drill. No major military operation, they've got large bases for that, just some local military using nearby beaches to practice. Anyway, according to the news, the Bloods and Crips, who happened to have their guns handy at the beach that day, saw "America's finest" "invading" and began firing on US troops, sending them scurrying back into the water. Do you ever recall reading or hearing anything on this? also... ...Furthermore' date=' if drug dealers operate out of a neighbours address, might I also suggest moving to a better area..[/quote'] Not that I'd know, but don't the drug dealers sell in the poorer neighborhoods and live in the richer ones??? Dime bags in the poor part of town and coke by-the-ounce at their own luxury homes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 While doing some research on Emergency War Powers, I came across a website by the Anti-Defamation League. I thought they use to have to do with fighting anti-semitism. On their LEARN (Law Enforcement Agency Resource Network) page they have articles, photos, and banners showing skinheads, KKK, etc...getting their due. But in other web pages (The Militia Watchdog Archives) they criticize constitutionalists (page subtitle: research on far right extremism in The United States). Guess they've branched out into fighting people who don't like their lives micro-managed by centralized governments. Maybe they associate freedom with violence, terrorism, and anti-semitism. Gosh, I hope not, but that's what their website appears to do: http://www.adl.org/learn/default.htm http://www.adl.org/ Wow, their main page has a link referring to accusations about Obama. I don't see a link referring to accusations about McCain. Guess it must be an oversight. Wow, they really have strayed from their original cause. http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp The above web page contains excerpts (and a complete downloadable .doc link) from a book listing LOTS of legal actions brought about by people seeking relief from political oppression. Hundreds if not thousands of court references and citings denying all semblance of the original rights acknowledged as "endowed by our creator" by our founding fathers. These guys really are tyrants. A lot of these court cases seem almost laughable--people trying their hearts out to get out of paying their taxes, lol. Declaring yourself "a pink elephant" and since pink elephants don't have to pay taxes...Some of the cases were brought by Terry Nichols, the co-conspirator with Timmothy McVeigh, trying to weasel his way out of his day of judgment. Some very enlightening (and boring) reading. The conclusion I came to--these judges and prosecutors honestly think we're their subjects and that they're above everybody else and have a right to impose all these laws (pathologic narcissism, messianic complex, delusions of grandeur). After all, aren't there only two kinds of people who would go into that kind of profession? Also came across a website with some VERY FASCINATING things in common with the Democratic party in the USA. Read them and you'll see what I mean: http://www.cpusa.org/article/archive/9/ http://cpusa.org/article/articleview/907/1/4/ http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/758/#top Happy Reading. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 ... The issue centered around the law deciding, NOT the people. As in the governing body of D.C. decided people couldn't own guns...had the people voted on this and decided they didn't want the right of gun ownership, that might have been different... I'm extending the argument that the people are responsible for the laws, because we elect the government reps that we want to make the actual laws for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 You know better than that! Special interest groups elect the politicians and get the laws passed that they want! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 ... The issue centered around the law deciding' date=' NOT the people. As in the governing body of D.C. decided people couldn't own guns...had the people voted on this and decided they didn't want the right of gun ownership, that might have been different... [/quote'] I'm extending the argument that the people are responsible for the laws, because we elect the government reps that we want to make the actual laws for us. Hmmm, sort of true, sort of not. To me, if people don't want guns in their city/state etc, than have it on the ballot. truly let the people decide. I trust politicians to look out for my best interests (regardless of party) about as much as I trust a priest around small boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 << Anyway, according to the news, the Bloods and Crips, who happened to have their guns handy at the beach that day, saw "America's finest" "invading" and began firing on US troops, sending them scurrying back into the water.>> If the Marines had any ammuniton at all, it would have been blanks. Time for a bayonet charge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian2 Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 An article on the ruling. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 An article on the ruling. So what do you think of that article, Julian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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