Guest Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by CondomKing: Clickonline, you wrote: Yes, I do have some thoughts on investing in a business here in general. As a foreigner I am unfamiliar with the language, the culture, the laws, and most of the written and unwritten rules and regulations. Getting good information, even from people who you trust and who do sincerely want to help you is difficult because a lot gets lost in translation, or is too complicated to effectively explain. This is where you will begin, if you decide to invest in a business in Thailand. IMHO, the best way to exectute any money making plan here is to know what you want to do and have an idea of exactly how you want to do it. Do everything legally, even if it seems unnecessary or a gigantic pain in the ass. Be cautious about taking anyone's advice because, your idea is probably better, your advisor could be recommending something illegal, there is a good chance that what you are trying to accomplish is being totally misunderstood, while you are building for the future many people that you will meet will only be concerned with the present situation. Be as honest and fair as you possibly can. It will be a lot harder for people to screw with you and and a lot easier for you to yell "foul" when you think you're being treated unfairly. Some of the rules apply to business here and I guess some apply to business anywhere. I wouldn't think of starting a business here or anywhere else unless it was something that no one else was doing at the time. To follow the crowd is a sure way to lose your investment. Of, course, that's just my opinion, and BTW, I have yet to see dollar number one from my business venture. I do feel that I will be successful, because there is a demand for my product. I could write more, but I've got to go to work now. Good luck. Hi ... Just arrived back this morning after 9 weeks in Phils. This is not really directed at you but more of a general statement. I rather disagree with statements (not you) in anger and disappointment about not being able to set up something in SE Asia. You have to be careful how to do it and you may want to include poison pills and what ever but there's a range of bizz opportunities which can can be conducted in LOS far more profitable than back home. I don't think many folk on this board would be willing to move to Isarn and I don't think many folk on this board are actually willing to research anything which does not have to do with pussy or some lame export cheap crap. The truth is: There are still tremendous opportunities e.g. in agriculture. Running a pig farm in LOS will be far more profitable than it would be back home. At least until 2004. There's huge opportunities in aquaculture, e,g, Tilapia, in case you would move to Isarn. I don't want to spill out to people how to do it. In case somebody is interested I will mention the places in Phils where you can go and study the bloody thing. Franchises of all kinds can be engaged into with minimal risk as far as I have studied the thing. What ever the hell you do, just make sure the damn thing will go bust the minute you are forced to leave the country. Returns of investment achieved in SE Asia engaging in agriculture are still out of this world compared to Europe. Something as small as a 100 sow-base farm in Isarn can make you a very rich person by local standards. Break-even points for investments as small as 2M can be achieved within 1.5 years. What ever. I thoroughly disagree with the notion SE Asia is a bad bizz environment. People who belive that have been looking at the wrong things. Other than that: Gas stations Spare parts Shotz tubes Slime shotz Animal feeds Knowledge (!) Network gaming Prints Distribututed energy (huh ... DISTRIBUTED ENERGY!) ... and many more Ooh and please (not you in person: Don't go and tell me I don't understand shit. I don't need to be warned. And err ... Nightlife in Phils is still *so* much better (gg) ! Take good care you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Hey click - Forget the pig farm. Pig farmers are going broke left and right around Thailand, because the Thai government over-promoted this industry at some point in the past, and no one paid attention to hog demographics. Pork is dirt cheap here - you can buy pork tenderloins at Foodland for about 65 baht for a full kilo. That would cost easily 300 baht (equivalent) in USA - 400 baht in big cities. Up-country Thailand, pork is even cheaper. It costs Thais more to raise and butcher a hog than the meat is worth. Changing subjects: I just went back and reread the entire thread. One part of the big picture was not discussed, and I think it is the part that Farangman was scratching at. Thailand is not the place to come in with minimal local connections/experience/local sensitivity, plunk down some investment money, and generate successful returns. As a matter of fact, Thailand is a place that runs a virtual cottage industry out of separating inexperienced farangs from intended investment money. But - this is also not a place where success is impossible. I suspect that I speak for a lot of long-term (maybe even terminal) ex-pats over here when I say the following: I probably will at some point invest in / participate in a local business venture over here. But I am in no hurry, and I don't think it will be easy to select a "winner." But I spend every week I live here expanding my network of local contacts, reading and studying local business regulations, improving my Thai language skills, doing post-mortems of the failed projects of others, etc. Absorbing the rythems of this place, making friends, learning the ropes. And I stay alert, looking and listening, and frequently discussing proposed business projects with farang visitors (and even, occasionally, with Thais). I have no pre-set idea or agenda concerning what sort of business I want to pursue. What I am looking for is a situation/project that appears to me to have merit, and which appears to me to have a great team of individuals assembled, each of whom bring a particularly strong skill or resource that is required for that project ....... and where that project is missing one component - a component to which I can contribute from my portfolio of skills and experiences. The situation/opportunity that I am looking for is not one that will know it is looking for me - it is one that will evolve out of networking contacts built up over a long residency here. I want at least some of the partners to be people I have known for years, and whose long-term stability and attitude I have observed over time. The approach I describe above cannot be pursued by an outsider - you have to pay your dues here, to cultivate the contacts - and to do so in the context of life and experience here in Thailand. I may never encounter a "good fit" situation. So be it. I am lucky in that I already have a good job here, that effectively underwrites my existence here, while I look around for a suitable project to participate in. If I find the right project, I expect I may be able to participate even while keeping my regular job. I've actually found one project that I would like to get involved in, and I have been promised a small role in applying some of my skills to this project over the year-end holiday period (I will be building a financial business model - basically income and cash-flow models on spreadsheets - including identifying key elements of expense, and then specifying itemized assumptions for each of the expense fields - which basically means estimating the magnitude of each expense, and then estimating how each entry will change over time, going forward). Going in, I am not in any way an expert concerning the specifics of the industry that is involved (exporting raw materials) - all I can do is build a spreadsheet model, and link to it a data table in which every identifiable element of income and expense is itemized. It is up the the partners who are industry experts to select the magnitudes of individual entries, and to indicate how they believe each element of expense or income will change over time. But I will be prepared to take on a follow-on role to research similar industries or businesses (or competitors), to flesh out any expense element projections that remain fuzzy to the team. If I do a good job, I expect to demonstrate my value to the team, and to earn a role in future projects. Every time I help with business modeling for one of these projects, I learn more about how to make good estimates. I am not responsible for whether the business succeeds or fails - just for constructing a model that shows what will happen IF THE ASSUMPTIONS FED IN BY THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS ARE ACCURATE. Frankly, I expect many of the assumptions to be wrong. That is their problem. My task is to model with what assumptions are provided. But I will also be studying the psychology of the players, and trying to hone my skills at challenging questionable assumptions. Bottom line - This is all a far cry from the view: "Hey, I am a smart farang businessman. Thais are all lazy, stupid, and terrible at business. I can come here as a wealthy outsider, briefly review the landscape, and shrewdly identify unfilled needs in this marketplace, and then apply my superior talents to assembling the local resources needed to exploit this opportunity. Hell, I'm so good that I can even create local demand where none exists - drawing from my own vast experiences - hey, I could start a go-go bar - none of the idiots over here do it right.......... Cheers! Bangkok Butterfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatbastard Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Gumminut, quote: Why do you goto a place where they serve you cock every second order? Four meals and Two cockups and I have given up patronising the place. Talking abot that, saw a large sign over a booth at a show at BITEC a couple of weeks back.. Welcome to all our patronising customers Bangkok butterfly, I enjoyed your post and agree that a proper analysis of the potentional is a prerequisite to success. I did the same for 4 years but then came to the conclusion that I was being over analytical and in doing so was coming to the conclusion that every model I put together had serious flaws, so in the end I just had to identify the best available opportunity, one that sat well with my meagre skill set and jumped in. I certainly agree that you need a at least a couple of years on the ground before investing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2001 Report Share Posted November 10, 2001 quote: Originally posted by peesooahbkk: Hey click - Forget the pig farm. Pig farmers are going broke left and right around Thailand, because the Thai government over-promoted this industry at some point in the past, and no one paid attention to hog demographics. Cheers! Bangkok Butterfly Hi Butterfly! Very good post! By all means I recognize the situation you sort of describe resulting in over-development and all that. I trust you by all means setting up a piggery in LOS might be a losing situation. I'm aware for that matter poultry has been a losing situation for as long as I can remember. I don't quite understand agriculture in LOS. I understand agriculture and aquaculture in Phils. I know the price of a kilogram of Tilapia in Iloilo, in Puerto Princessa and in Bagio. I know what people expect from an Internet cafe in Palawan and I know what people expect in Makati. I understand which bars might be interested in added value gimmicks like shotz tubes and which bars are not. Out of ten ideas, nine may not be applicable to a certain location. And than again, that particular location may offer an opportunity you never thought off. By all means who would have expected the best Celadon in LOS to be produced by an Englishman. Knowledge is power though. That, and a carefully nurtured network as you point out. In so far I become agitated, it is because I often sense a tendency to blame LOS for not being able to succeed. I very strongly suspect people who do not manage to set up shop in LOS to be even more uncapable of setting up shop back home. Talking e.g. about Phils and talking about distributed energy, it may be a weird proposition some elected mayor needs to earn back the money he's been spending to get elected but that does not imply a bad bizz environment. It may well represent an excellent bizz environment. A much better environment than you will ever encounter back home. I made my first feeble attempts to set up shop in LOS back in 92-93, as a sort of part-time thing. Insofar things went sour, it was never ever because of LOS. It was because of *me* or it was because of too many problems back home. It was *never* because of LOS. It was *never* because I was unable to find reliable and smart and hard-working people in LOS. When people, even you, talk about an industry dedicated to separate farang from their money ... Have you ever been subjected to fiscal "specialists" back home charging 120 US$ an hour? Do you have any experience with software "specialists" screwing you out of your money? How about real estate folk back home? When people desire to walk the beaten track, when they want to set up bars, when to they want to buy and rent out condos, when they somehow feel they are so much more clever they are entitled to succes based on being a farang ... Things will go sour. Just don't blame LOS. Just don't blame anybody but yourselves. Having said all that it does strike me Malaysian and LOS government actively engage in xenophobia. They seem to be in need of a scapegoat. Not an atmosphere you will encounter under the current GMA/Ramos government in Phils but that could change very rapidly. Somebody like Erap definitely scared the hell out of me and likewise the current LOS administration scares the hell out of me. I don't live in LOS and perhaps things look more grave from a distance. Would be curious to hear from people who actually have a bizz in LOS whether they feel affected. By all means, I'm fairly convinced local politics and election cycles may indeed have a significant effect on your bizz and shall not be ignored in countries like LOS and Phils. One of my brothers in law (now dead) had two targets in life: Become mayor of X by the age of 28 ... and become a (peso) millionaire by the age of 29 ... In that order. Hmmm ... Take care and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 peesooahbkk, If I had any, I'd put my money on you. Good luck, my friend. Show us all our dream! ps...need a business partner? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Click - Concur with all you wrote. But you always have to expect the unexpected. Back about three years ago, I helped a lady in Makati out financially, to leave the bar (Friday's, on Burgos Street) and set up a small grocery store in Cavite. She actually got things up and running, and was making a living. Then along came monster typhoon #1, and leveled her store. Gone. So I dug into my wallet again, and set her up a second time. Again, she got things up and running. And.....you guessed it, monster typhoon #2 comes along last year and wiped her out again. At that point (after contributing about US $5,000 over 30 months), I was trying to figure out how to tell her that I was finished competing with mother nature in the Philippines, but she saved me the trouble. She met with me one time to say thanks, and farewell, and then vanished. She didn't want to take any more from me. Businesses have to be able to survive the inevitable challenges - and that is particularly true for agriculture or retail, in places where mother nature periodically "vents" herself. But - the intrepid soul often manages to triumph - something in the human spirit. Cheers! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiledCowboy Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Well, IMHO everyone's got a valid point. Having the same thoughts as we all have, whether never been to LOS or currently living there, to make a small nest egg to support what we like doing in the place. If we are smart/lucky enough to have a nest-egg to bring over to LOS then we are probably not total fools making rash mistakes, even in another land. Of course I agree he is a SUPER HIGH-RISK candidate for losing the lot but he also may just be that one percent that crawls his way to the top to bring us something that everyone said would never be done. What I'm trying to convey is that after he has done his research etc (and his trip) and still feels the same, knowing the great risks in business anywhere let alone Thailand, then wish him the best of luck and stamina - he too just MIGHT be successful in his chosen path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2001 Report Share Posted November 26, 2001 quote: Originally posted by peesooahbkk: Click - Concur with all you wrote. But you always have to expect the unexpected. Back about three years ago, I helped a lady in Makati out financially, to leave the bar (Friday's, on Burgos Street) and set up a small grocery store in Cavite. She actually got things up and running, and was making a living. Then along came monster typhoon #1, and leveled her store. Gone. So I dug into my wallet again, and set her up a second time. Again, she got things up and running. And.....you guessed it, monster typhoon #2 comes along last year and wiped her out again.BB My "mama's" place used to get flooded every year. Mudfish in the swimming pool. Mudfish in the pockets of the pooltable for that matter. Happy, happy mudfish scavenging on drowned chcken and piglets. Vulcanos, typhoons, earthquackes, for certain this country seems to have a hard time pleasing the Lord in spite of their zeal. Hmm ... By all means: I'm aware. Next time you stay in Manilla, try Robelle House on Valdez street (back of the international school and walking distance from Burgos). At around a thou best value rooms in Manilla IMHO. Stayed there on occasion in case I didn't feel like asking 10-20 of those taxi drivers from hell to take me from Makati to Marikina. Best bars in Manilla not in Burgos but perhaps in Quezon. Would have to ask my bros in law for details but there are isolated (but very large) places hardly visited by "cano", galls which take your breath away, and plenty of VIP rooms (and very nice food for that matter, still a rare find in Phills). There's one along Quezon Av but cannot remember the name of the place. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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