opertunities in los

[iuytrede]

@ phoenix

from todays Nation:

"The project (of a Special Economic Zone) is scheduled to be completed within the next few years to cope with the completion of the Thai-Laos Bridge II. The nearly two-kilometre-long bridge will link Mukdahan, a northeastern province of Thailand, with Laos in Savannakhet province."

sounds like it is not finished yet

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: iuytrede ]

[pattaya127]

Peesoo:

The best way for an inexperienced westerner to make a small fortune here in Bangkok is to start off with a big fortune.

--------------------------------------------

great line, peesoo, and right on,too! I would add too: experienced as well. But the experienced knows better.

[pattaya127]

truly, Whops does not need encouragement but discouragement, this is the best thing the expats and know-hows can do for him. i also agree that you either come for sanook or business. And don't bet on being able to split the 2 halves of the day so easily. 3 days in BKK, and i think Whoops will become a great all-night NanaP buddy, and wisely repair during the day. As it should....

PS: to the expats,do you know someone who has his own business in LOS and is not married/fixed with a thai woman, I mean who could stay single,own the business, and be able to lay off the sanook side of town to keep a real eye on his cash-flow. Thanks

[Guest]

I don't think the man of farang had an old hand attitude as you described, but he and others (myself included) are constantly shocked and the naivete and IMHO arrogance of some of these posts.

If the posters had been to Thailand AT LEAST ONCE and had done some research about investment opportunities on the internet and/or while in LOS then they would be taken more seriously.

Until they show they've done some due diligence old hands are of course going to find these fellas amusing.

[Guest]

Excuse for my jumping in, but I wanted a correct point raised here and in other posts about doing business in Thailand – the alleged requirement that a business in Thailand must be held in the name of a Thai. I see this point raised often, here and sometimes by wanna-be Thai business partners (e.g., bargirl girlfriends), but it really not true. Or to put it more accurately, the truth is a bit more complicated.

Believing that foreigners cannot own any businesses here, many a Farang has lost his investment to his Thai partner. I don’t have the energy right now to write a comprehensive post on the issue (maybe I should prepare an article in the “members” section of this site?), so I will limit this to the following points:

First, there is a law restricting foreign ownership of businesses known as the Alien Business Operations Act (ABOA), but that law does not apply to all business activities.

Second, the ABOA defines an “alien business” as a business where a non-Thai owns a majority of the capital (shares), but in its present form the ABOA does not restrict foreign control of businesses. The subject is a bit complicated, but the Thai Civil and Commercial Code permits companies to be structured with two classes of shareholders such that one class controls virtually all of the votes and enjoys superior rights to distributions and dividends even though that class holds less than 50% of the shares. Its complicated, but strictly legal, although some of the ministers in the current government would like to change this "loophole". With the Thai economy in the tank, however, this may prove harder to accomplish then the xenophobes in the current administration had originally envisioned.

Third, many of the ABOA restrictions do not apply to Americans. Here again, however, the current government would like to change things. Under WTO, Thailand must grant equal access to all foreigners. The US has argued that rather than eliminate the “preferential treatment” granted Americans, this “preferential treatment” should be extended to all. Extraordinarily, the French have taken a different tack, arguing that any effort to push for an opening the Thai market must take a back seat to putting an end to the preferential treatment granted Americans.

Fourth, and finally because I have to get to bed, putting aside the commercial reasonableness of your planned business venture, many foreigners have lost their businesses, exposed themselves to tremendous risks and basically f**ked themselves over by failing to take simple precautions. Oftentimes when a Thai gets involved in a business dispute, he or she prevails by simply exercising his or her rights as the owner of the business. Virtually all of these types of problems could have prevented with a bit of preventative planning. It amazes me how often foreigners leave themselves open to stupid and easily avoided problems by relying on the bar stool wisdom that they must conduct their business activities through a Thai front. In 99% of the cases, it just isn’t true. I don't mean to sound arrogant (and I hope I don't), but since we are talking about money here, I wanted to take brief stab at clearing up this urban myth about running businesses in Thailand.

[ June 20, 2001: Message edited by: RogerRabbit ]

[Guest]

Farangaman, what you said is so typical of a long term expats arrogant attitude towards new arrivals.Basically pathetic. It is also typical of someone who probably has a university degree and a good job but will never get much further in life.

I lived in Hong Kong for five years and met people like you all the time who thought they were in some way superior because they had been there a while.Funny that many of these individuals had ventured little outside the expat community during their stay.

How can you possibly know what abilities this guy has from his post? You cant! And that is why you are just a wage slave and will probably never be any more.

Thailand is full of opportunity, just because you are blind to it doesnt mean he will be. Obsticles exist everywhere to anything worth achieving. It all depends on how badly you want it.

For God sake please dont give us any more of that patronizing 'Ive been here longer than you' expat shit. If you knew anything about running a business you would be doing just that instead of working in one.

I have a friend who went to the Philipines and started a business growing and selling orchids. I have another one who went to Russia and despite many a close shave with the mafia, threats on his life etc has established a successful business dealing grain.

As the great bard himself said.' OUR DOUBTS ARE TRAITORS,AND MAKE US LOSE THE GOOD WE OFT MIGHT WIN BY FEARING TO ATTEMPT'

Too many smart arse English teachers on this site too. And we all know what they say about teachers dont we? 'Those that cant do, teach'.

[Guest]

Hinch,

I've read the posts from farangman and the original from whoops. I think fman is being the more realistic of the two posters.

Now class me as a smart ass English teacher if you like but I was an accountant for several years before re-training as a teacher so know about the realities of commercial life too. When I first arrived I had grand designs on starting a business and living on the proceeds in my own little piece of paradise.

The ideas I seriously thought about were:-

An orchid farm

A kayaking and canoeing company

An internet cafe

A langauge school

A golf driving range

Harley Davidson dealership

Manufacture of injection moulded canoes

I spent a great deal of my time trying to get one of these up and running. Even with the help of my TGF it was so frustrating and full of cheating ba**ards that here I am still doing what I originally came out here to do. I would have welcomed the dicouragement shown to whoops by the likes of farangman much earlier.

You don't mention what you do or even where you live but I'll bet next months Singha/sanuk money you don't run a business in Thailand.

Farangman may not have all the answers. For instance - own 49% of the shares and spread the rest between 5 or 6 Thais gives you "overall" control. However his case was presented in a much less arrogant way than you have presented yours'.

[Guest]

the short story:

if you lay down with dogs

you wake up with fleas

if you lay down with thais

you wake up with empty pockets.

you might just as well throw your investment money out the window. this is the lesson learned by foreign investors in the wake of the '97 downturn. stealing is as much a thai cultural tradition as lying and denying responsibility. any position of trust is a license to steal; political office, bank officer, corporate executive. when an opportunity presents itself, they just can't help themselves. alphatec was supposed to be the grand entrance into the microchip industry for thailand... until it came up 16 billion baht short! the executives said "it's just lost in accounting". the business went down the tubes, no one was ever charged.

when bankrupt businesses were being sold off after the crash, it was decided that foreign investors would have no say about the sale. properties were then sold to cronies of the thai cliques for crumbs. the losers... foreign investors! now the thais say 'that was before, different now, send more foreign investment!'. nothing has changed, the thais are looking for fat marks to bleed dry. will you be the next victim?

[Guest]

At the risk of drawing fire in this rather heated exchange, I will make the following observation: the truth is more complicated than most of the posts here suggest. While Thailand is certainly a high-risk environment, this does not mean that every farang businessperson operating here gets screwed. Many have done quite. I know several.

I am not going to pretend to know the key to success in Thailand, but I can easily identify a three key issues:

First, because it is a high-risk environment, you really need to conduct a proper due diligence. You need to gather facts and investigate every aspect the proposed investment. Your due diligence must be more exhaustive than the one you might conduct in a more developed economy, and you need to know where to focus your due diligence.

Second, many of the smaller farangs investing here, adopt a "wild east" approach, cutting legal corners and putting their investment in the name of and under the control of someone they hardly know and have little reason to trust. Even some larger investors make some extraordinarily stupid blunders. You need to set up the proper structure, and for that you need more than bar stool wisdom. Otherwise, you are the mercy of your local business partner and competitors. That is not smart anywhere in the world.

Third, you need stronger controls in Thailand. Fraud is a bigger problem here than in more developed economies. You need proper accounting controls, immediate access to the business's books and records, and control of the business's bank accounts and other assets. You need someone in place that you can trust to operate the business who knows the local business environment and culture, and this perhaps one of the hardest parts of operating a business here in Thailand. It is also why there are so many ex-pat managers and professionals in Thailand these days.

Having said all of that, there are opportunities. Because the economy is less developed, there are many products and services that are available in more developed countries but not yet available here. If there is a market for a service or product that has not yet been introduced to Thailand and you introduce it in the proper fashion, you will have a wide-open market, and that is a tremendous business opportunity. Labor costs are also low here, but this can be a mixed blessing since the quality of the local labor market is uneven.

Coming from a more developed economy, you actually do have many advantages: superior knowledge of new products and services, superior access to such products and services, better technology, and an entrepreneurial spirit that is sadly missing in Thailand. You also face disadvantages: your knowledge of the local market is less developed (but this can sometimes be a blessing in surprise) and you face legal barriers to entry. Both of these disadvantages can be overcome in almost all cases, if you do your homework (due diligence) and you establish the proper structure. You probably are not going to be able to do this on your own.

If your business plan is fundamentally sound, you conduct proper due diligence, and you structure things right, you have a tremendous opportunity to do quite well. Many farangs have. Good luck!

[yfs]

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