rchapstick Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 GWB deserved a Nobel in literature for finishing "My Pet Goat" under duress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I guess it depends how people feel about Dubya’s wars. Were they necessary or not? A lot of people think he went to war for the heck of it. Obama has inherited those wars so he can go one way or the other. That’s what he has to decide now. My feeling is that the Pentagon and the Defence Industry are too big for any president to handle. Gone the other way??? Troops still in Iraq! More troops being sent to Afghanistan!! Gitmo still open and doing business!!! Just a GWB with a sun tan now in the White House, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Just a GWB with a sun tan now in the White House, IMO. I feel sorry for him. He's inherited a crock of shit. Either he keeps sending troops to Afghanistan or he gets called a wimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Obama would have sent troops to Afghanistan if he were President after 9/11. He's always supported that war and criticized Bush for spending resources, both in materiel and manpower in Iraq. I expect Afghanistan to have an increase. Its a game of 'what ifs' but had we focused solely on Afghanistan after 9/11, we could have been seeing a decrease in troops there now because the country would have been placated and al qaida in check. I had no problem with the invasion due to the fact that at the time they openly hosted al qaida. We had no way of getting close to bin Laden otherwise. Using special forces without an invasion was not an option given that no one knew where bin Laden was and the men would have had to operate in a completely hostile environment. I recall asking for alternatives at the time from those were against a full scale invasion. I would have loved to avoid a full scale invasion but what were the options other than 'forgive and forget' and trying to extract bin Laden with special forces which had a very very low percentage of being successful. All that said, the award committee may have done more harm than good to a person it wanted to honor. Given the time that the nominations were in the award seems more a commentary on the failure of the Bush years. America's reputation was at a low point, we were mired in two wars, both unsuccessful to some extent (most assumed we'd be welcome as liberators in Iraq), the world was in a financial crisis that started in America. The award was more about his promise. Perhaps the American voter was more deserving of the award than Obama given we, collectively, changed course dramatically and in historical fashion. Even if I didn't vote for him and if I didn't like him, I would like to think I would not have any enmity to Obama given that he neither sought the award and seems even embarrassed by it. Had Bush gotten it I'd like to think I'd react the same way. Again, its the committee that has weakened the prestige and honor of the award, not Obama. Sorta like blaming Beyonce for Kanye West being an ass at the VMAs. Like Beyonce, maybe Obama will use it to honor someone more deserving at the acceptance ceremony? HH brought up Arafat. I forgot about him. I mentioned Carter as well. Its a shame. The committee has lost its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I expect Afghanistan to have an increase. Its a game of 'what ifs' but had we focused solely on Afghanistan after 9/11, we could have been seeing a decrease in troops there now because the country would have been placated and al qaida in check. Maybe. Now it looks like it will take about half a million to make a dent. The idea of training Afghans to do it is a joke. And who is paying for it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 << The Nobel Peace Prize is a notoriously difficult award to predict, but [color:red]yesterday's decision was clearly a political choice, with three of the past six peace awards going to Bush adversaries. [/color] In 2002 the prize went to Jimmy Carter as an explicit rejection of the Bush presidency in the build-up to the Iraq war. In 2005 Mohamed El Baradei, the UN atomic agency chief who had clashed with Washington over the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, was honoured. In 2007 Al Gore received the prize for his warnings on climate change, denounced by President Bush as a liberal myth. The award is also an example of what Nobel scholars call the growing aspirational trend of Nobel committees over the past three decades, by which awards are given not for what has been achieved but in support of the cause being fought for. Thorbjørn Jagland, the committee chairman, made clear that this year’s prize fell in that category. “If you look at the history of the Peace Prize, we have on many occasions given it to try to enhance what many personalities were trying to do,†he said. “It could be too late to respond three years from now.†But Bobby Muller, who won the Nobel Prize as co-founder of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, told The Times: "I don't have the highest regard for the thinking or process of the Nobel committee. Maybe Norway should give it to Sweden so they can more properly handle the Peace Prize along with all the other Nobel prizes." >> The Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I expect Afghanistan to have an increase. Its a game of 'what ifs' but had we focused solely on Afghanistan after 9/11' date=' we could have been seeing a decrease in troops there now because the country would have been placated and al qaida in check. [/quote'] Maybe. Now it looks like it will take about half a million to make a dent. The idea of training Afghans to do it is a joke. And who is paying for it all? I really hate having to do the 'blame Bush' thingy 10 months after he's left the White House. However, the present situation in Afghanistan is from 8 years of neglect. Its extremely hard to pick up the war several years after we have been, at best, in a holding position. Add in the fact that the country is war weary from being in Iraq for several years now. Volunteers to join the military, even in a time when the economy is bad and one would think it would be an option for many, are weary of going to die in Afghanistan. Its not seen as the patriotic war any more but has morphed into the sentiment that affected the Iraq War and that is a war that is not necessary. It makes winning the war in Afghanistan extremely difficult. Any war needs domestic support and that is thin. It seems we, as a nation, have changed our attitude about the whole thing (9/11-Afghanistan) to lesson learned and retribution no longer a feeling in the American psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I agree there is and has been an anti Bush sentiment to the committee. While its a shame and unwarranted, it does emphasize how globally despised his actions and policies are. Deservedly? Everyone has to make that decision based on their own politics and view. While I fully reject this thouught process of the committee and hope that the award goes back to the ideals it was founded for, it does support my opinion that the Bush years were regrettable and forgettable (sans the lessons learned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Its extremely hard to pick up the war several years after we have been, at best, in a holding position. Add in the fact that the country is war weary from being in Iraq for several years now. Volunteers to join the military, even in a time when the economy is bad and one would think it would be an option for many, are weary of going to die in Afghanistan. Its not seen as the patriotic war any more but has morphed into the sentiment that affected the Iraq War and that is a war that is not necessary. It makes winning the war in Afghanistan extremely difficult. Any war needs domestic support and that is thin. It seems we, as a nation, have changed our attitude about the whole thing (9/11-Afghanistan) to lesson learned and retribution no longer a feeling in the American psyche. I think people are realizing that there won't be a clear cut win. Americans don't like untidy grey areas. The wars are getting boring and no fun anymore. Expensive too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 As noted in my prior posts, I agree with the award being underseved. However, after seeing the comments and hearing the outrage from Limbaugh and others, I must say they are completely over the top and misdirected. The bile and animus was a bit shocking really. Also, the clever misdirection of blaming Obama himself for something he neither wanted or felt he deserved. I was also sympathetic to Bush in '00. He was met with visceral hatred before he had a chance to do anything. Understandable perhaps given the manner in which he was elected but still unwarranted as we should be rallying behind any new president and putting election animus behind us. I really don't think many Americans realize just how low we have sunk internationally and if many of us, did we didn't care. We have a habit in America of viewing European disdain for us as a sign that we are doing things right and having a bunker mentality with regards to the view than a cue for self reflection. Interesting side note is that Obama has now joined Carter, Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt as presidents that have won the award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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