USVirgin Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 In my experience, working 'at will' simply means the company can terminate its contract with the employee for any reason at any time, and the lucky employee enjoys the same privilege. Employment 'at will' gives the employer no exceptions to labor laws pertaining to working conditions or overtime pay, AFAIK. It's almost meaningless, because an employer can always find a reason to make you redundant if they want to. Pretty much any non-union worker in California is working 'at will.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Now in the 2000's, USA companies often do the same thing...the last one I worked for, it was EXPECTED that you "work" 2 hours OT (unpaid) every day!WELCOME TO THE NEW CENTURY (yes. the CAPs lock got stuck) It pays to unionize. It was bad enough dealing with management/owners with a union to fight for you (weak as they are now). Without a decent union you will get screwed most times. Just the nature of the big business beast. Fuck the little guys until they bleed, then ask for more concessions. Mandatory overtime is complete BS in this day and age, but it happens more and more using new 'work rules'. The American labor movement is fucked these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 That "exempt" thing is also an American thing... From what I've seen the 'exemption' is usually for salary workers rather than hourly workers. Lower/middle management. Paid the same no matter how many hours they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 It pays to unionize. It was bad enough dealing with management/owners with a union to fight for you (weak as they are now). Without a decent union you will get screwed most times. Just the nature of the big business beast. Fuck the little guys until they bleed, then ask for more concessions. Mandatory overtime is complete BS in this day and age, but it happens more and more using new 'work rules'. The American labor movement is fucked these days. Why are these here? Has nothing to do with Thailand. News forum maybe, non-Thailand News? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Dave32, Wiseass. As the thread on Thai OT law has morphed a bit I replied to other posts already off topic (but still on the topic of OT law/experience). Not the same as your mistaken off topic post/thread start is it? Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yeah, I just hope the others picked up I was being a wise-ass too. Can't help it Cent, it's my damn Irish grand-dad's genes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 A partial Irish wiseass! I thought as much. My excuse as well, both grannies off the boat from the old sod. Just can't help myself it seems. KS moved that post for you btw. Spoke with him this morning and mentioned you asked it be moved to the proper area, non-Thailand News. Now back to the off and on again topic Overtime thread. While working for the airline I was employed by they had what they called 'emergency forced overtime'. They would claim an 'act of god' and other such horseshit to try to force us to work OT. I'd tell them, "How is this predicted for 3 fucking days blizzard an 'emergency'? You've known it was coming and just did not prepare for it. I ain't staying OT." "You have to!" they'd say. My reply, "Fuck off. I'm going home sick then." They tried to fight me and punish me for leaving. I'd beat the dumb bastards every time at the union/management disciplinary hearing (I always stopped at the airport clinic when I left and saw a doc and got a note stating I was ill). Management is lazy, ill prepared most times, and fucking retarded usually. Plenty of guys would have loved to come in and get the OT. Instead they would wait to the last minute until the storm would hit and just try to force us to stay and work. No planning in advance when they were warned much earlier this would be a problem. Fuck 'em. Stupid lazy assholes. I had kids at home, a wife working until later in the day and I needed to be home to watch my kids, especially if she got stuck at work because of the storm and could not get home (I worked 6 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. Wife got off at 5 p.m.). Not my problem they couldn't get their shit together and make plans when they knew the storm was coming in plenty of time to prepare the staff and call help in to cover what was needed doing. 'Emergency' my ass. Thailand actually has some good industrial and work related laws on the books. They have some strong unions. Problem is many employers don't follow the laws (and no difference much of the time in the first world, supposedly, US, to tell the truth). Actually Thailand has better work rules and compensation laws than the states in some areas I have seen and read. They just need to enforce them, and the employees need to be educated as to their rights. Some/many Thai workers are right on top of these labor laws and know their rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyinEwa/Perv Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 While working for the airline I was employed by they had what they called 'emergency forced overtime'. They would claim an 'act of god' and other such horseshit to try to force us to work OT. I'd tell them, "How is this predicted for 3 fucking days blizzard an 'emergency'? You've known it was coming and just did not prepare for it. I ain't staying OT." "You have to!" they'd say. My reply, "Fuck off. I'm going home sick then." They tried to fight me and punish me for leaving. I'd beat the dumb bastards every time at the union/management disciplinary hearing (I always stopped at the airport clinic when I left and saw a doc and got a note stating I was ill). Management is lazy, ill prepared most times, and fucking retarded usually. Plenty of guys would have loved to come in and get the OT. Instead they would wait to the last minute until the storm would hit and just try to force us to stay and work. No planning in advance when they were warned much earlier this would be a problem. Fuck 'em. Stupid lazy assholes. I had kids at home, a wife working until later in the day and I needed to be home to watch my kids, especially if she got stuck at work because of the storm and could not get home (I worked 6 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. Wife got off at 5 p.m.). Not my problem they couldn't get their shit together and make plans when they knew the storm was coming in plenty of time to prepare the staff and call help in to cover what was needed doing. 'Emergency' my ass. That got modified a bit over time. They still had the forced overtime emergency deal but for us, they had to exhaust all options before invoking it. Meaning they had to to call everyone not working first and offer voluntary OT to them and also to anyone actually working at the time. If they couldn't get enough, then they would force it. But even then, if you had a "valid and compelling" (those were the words in the contract) you could still leave without being forced. Valid and compelling was always changing, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USVirgin Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Ever seen that doco on PBS about the longshoreman strike of 1937 that bore the ILWU? Gnarly! I have ILWU barfly acquaintances that freely admit they don't do much and don't work many hours, yet still make six figs. Largely because of their forefathers. Wish I had a link...great documentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 US, Haven't seen it, and would like to as I am interested in the early labor movement (my grandfather was heavily involved). I've been in a few unions in my working career: Teamsters - 3 years, IBEW - 4 years (Intl. Brotherhood of Electrical Workers - BOS Local #103), IAM - 25 years (Intl. Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers - East Boston Local), plus a couple smaller ones. One thing they all had in common was better pay, better perks (vacation time, sick days, health insurance, etc.), less management harassment, and better work rules, safety protection and job security or help when not working and having hardship. It pays to unionize in my opinion. What you pay in monthly dues is negligable compared to what you get, especially over time as you gain seniority. Much fairer work rules that protect you from the ass sucking kiss asses that are attached to management's butthole trying to get more than their brothers by being rats and faggots for the bossman. (Hate these scumbags and their cousins, the scabs.) It's bad enough out there even with unions (especially in the USA - land of the free and fucked over by the man), and much much worse for the common working man without the power of banding together to unionize to bargain with the boss from a position of power and solidarity. Helps even the field a little more. Anyone who thinks management/boss/business owners will willingly give them anything without having to due to the solidarity of the union is a fool and deluded. (Some will, but there are always some exceptions, but not the majority.) Without unions most people would get squat and told they are lucky to get that. And due to the 'unions of old' many have gained much even without being in a union over the past century or so, all over the globe, including Thailand. Are there abuses? Of course, and always will be due to the nature of human beings. Cent P.s. Being a 'boss' myself now with my restaurant, my staff is treated well and more like family than employees. The better I do, the better they will do. It's all about being fair in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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