"worse than Vietnam"

[Old Hippie]

<< We stayed until what 1975 when Saigon finally fell? >>

 

Who stayed? The last US troops flew out of South Vietnam on 29 March 1973. Hanoi immediately began rebuilding its forces in the South and preparing to invade.

 

<< Last U.S. soldiers leave Vietnam; 8,500 American civilians, embassy guards, defense office soldiers remain. >>

 

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1959.html

 

 

Abandoning conscription was a callous decision by the rightwing. It meant the sons of the rich and powerful would no longer have to join stay-at-home units and could start making money without the fear of having to do even token service. The pay raises also insured the poor folks would quickly fill the ranks, since it's the best way for them to make a decent salary. The left went along with it like sheep.

 

 

p.s. Dates of the American Revolution ... 18 April 1775 to 3 September 1783. Why doesn't this war count?

 

 

I was actually referring to the last/final embassy guards, and those who helped evacuate Saigon.

 

As for the longest war, what about Korea? there still is no armistice signed. Both sides technically still at war...and we still have troops there...

[Flashermac]

Did the US ever sign a peace treaty with the Seminole nation?

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Where do you get 1782???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1783)

 

Right, I should have said preliminary articles. Peace was agreed and independence recognized, Charleston evacuated. Battle of Blue Licks ended hostilities. All in 1782. Treaty was formally signed in 1783.

 

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lldc&fileName=006/lldc006.db&recNum=88

 

[Flashermac]

Blue Licks didn't quite end it (my 5x great grandfather Captain John Gordon was killed there). Guerrilla warfare continued well into 1783, especially around New York. The Indians also were still running wild on the frontier with British support, though there were no more big raids.

 

 

<< The last local fighting of the war was done by raiding Tories from New York City against the Americans in the surrounding areas, especially in NJ.

 

The British finally stopped supporting the raiders when they murdered an American prisoner taken from a New York City prison, Captain Joshua Huddy of Monmouth County. Washington ordered a lottery of British captains to chose one to hang in return, and a Capt. Asgill was selected. Congress supported and reinforced the decision. Washington bargained for the murderers for Asgill, but the British refused to turn them over. They held a trial of the officer responsible, who was found Not Guilty, as he was under orders of the Loyalist Council, a group of high ranking loyalist in New York. The British broke up the Loyalist group and sent most to England. Washington, the war almost over, had no reason or desire to hang Asgill, but could not get Congress to order his release. Finally Lady Asgill, the Captain's mother, wrote to King Louis XVI of France and begged for her son's life. The French minister sent a request to Washington to release the boy, and Washington was able to push Congress into acting to release him.

 

Finally, the war petered out to an end. On April 14, 1783 New York Governor William Livingston announced the End of the War. No offical hostilities occured after this, but Loyalists were still a problem, even after the war, and the militia still had to keep an eye on the British in New York City until late November, 1783 when the British handed over first Manhattan, then Staten Island, and took ship for Britain. >>

 

http://www.doublegv.com/ggv/NJrev.html

 

 

p.s. I took two semesters of American colonial history and one semester on the Rev War. It was a subject that fascinated me. I have three Tory ancestors that I know of.

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Yes it is interesting. I suppose one could argue that hostilities didn't really end until the Treaty of Ghent in 1814.

[Flashermac]

Ah, THAT war. The United States nearly broke apart over it. It began over two issues - British support for the Indian nations fighting American settlers on the then frontier (Kentucky, Ohio, Michigan and Illinois) and British impressment of American seaman into the RN. Ironically, Britain had abandoned both ... buy the US Congress didn't know in time and declared war. New England merchants were so displeased with the war that New England seriously considered secession. A meeting was called at Hartford, Connecticut to take up the issue. Even in New York state the militia refused to step across the border into Canada. They said they would fight any invasion, but weren't going to do any invading themselves. Strange war - neither Britain nor most Americans wanted it.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention

 

 

[chuckwoww]

The settlement of Ohio was very important. Prior to the Louisiana Purchase the original Indian reserve stretched from Hudson's Bay to Florida. That sure got whittled down.

[Flashermac]

The Shawnees and other tribes had ceded most of Ohio to the US government by treaty. Tecumseh and other leaders opposed this and demanded all land west of the Ohio River be returned to them. That wasn't about to happen and war was inevitable over it.

 

Tecumseh is one of my heroes - even though he fought against my own family. He was brilliant, very westernised, fought by European rules etc. No massacres of prisoners and the like ever took place when he was around. There is also a story I'd love to confirm about a fallen Kentucky officer giving the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress just as an Indian was about to whack him with a tomahawk. The Indian immediately lowered his weapon, took him by the hand and protected him. He saw that his prisoner was turned over to British officers in safety. That Indian was Tecumseh, who allegedly had been made a Mason in a British military Lodge. From what I know of Tecumseh, it sounds possible.

 

 

[chuckwoww]

He was walking in Pontiac's footsteps. They mostly got along with fur traders but they didn't have a chance against settlement and control of the Mississipi.

[Old Hippie]

Did the US ever sign a peace treaty with the Seminole nation?

 

 

 

 

I believe we probably did, then, like all the other tribes and treaties, broke it again when we needed to.