Afghanistan - Did We Learn Anything ?

[gobbledonk]

Over 10 years, thousands of lives, billions upon billions of dollars and it could all be back in Taliban hands within 3 years, whether by Karzai welcoming them with open arms or brute force. The ANA has had at least 5 years of the best training the Coalition forces could provide but still look like a ragtag, unenthusiastic bunch to me. Their loyalties are, at best, dubious and at worst there are reports of large-scale Taliban infiltration - its not a 'defence force' by Western standards, particularly when the rest of the country is a basketcase reliant on foreign aid to even pay the troops they have.

 

If we re-examine the events of 2001, I fully understand why GWB had to send in the troops, but the idea that they could remove a 'safe haven for terrorists' now seems like a sick joke when the world knows those same terrorists have found a safe haven right next door. Killing Osama probably made a lot of people very happy - understandably so - but they've killed dozens of Al Qaeda lieutenants and still they keep coming. New blood flows into the Pakistan camps, infuriated by everything from Gitmo to the Special Forces offensive of the last 12-18 months.

 

I posted a few years back about an interview that I read with two old warhorses from the Cold War era, both retired Generals. The Russian was adamant that the US would fare no better in Afghanistan than his men had - the American was a little less pessimistic, but grudgingly admitted that he couldnt see a viable longterm exit strategy. Afghanistan is a graveyard - they should have nuked it from orbit.

[Flashermac]

Obama's idea (or rather that of his advisors) is for a smaller military that bombs the crap out of everything without many men on the ground. It sounds like a good idea, but would it really work? Maybe if you nuked the population out of existence as you suggest, but is the world willing to accept that?

 

Karzai thanks American taxpayers for their money.

[gobbledonk]

Is the world willing to accept an endless 'War on Terror' and the insecurity that goes with that ? I know its not limited to the Middle East and Pakistan vs India, but that is a sizeable chunk of the world's potential tinderboxes in one delightful chunk of Central Asia. Will American taxpayers be willing to finance a war in Iran ? How about a rematch in North Korea ? Is it a good thing that Big Brother was given the money and the power to spy on everyone after 9/11 ?

 

The Ukraine survived Chernobyl, and the Japanese seem to have survived their own meltdown - whats the use of having all those tactical nukes if Uncle Sam isnt prepared to use them ? The US military isnt beefing up its Pacific presence because they see the 21st century as a period of peace and understanding. Sooner or later, the gloves will come off - last time I checked, eagles had talons and everything else was potential prey.

 

As insane as all of the above sounds, history is on my side. The caveman with the biggest club gets the girl and the Mammoth carcass. Fortunately, I dont plan to be here for any of it.

[The_Munchmaster]

...but they've killed dozens of Al Qaeda lieutenants and still they keep coming...

 

Like the bugs in Starship Troopers!

[baa99]

The USA should never have "gone big" in Afghanistan. Should have gone the El Salvador route with special forces and air power.

[pasathai1]

they can stick a white man on a camel, but that ensure he will ride it correctly.

 

 

они могут придерживатьÑÑ Ð±ÐµÐ»Ñ‹Ð¹ человек на верблюде, но гарантировать, что он будет ездить на нем правильно.

[YimSiam]

Shit I Learned in Thailand that We Should have Remembered in Afghanistan

 

1. Money can't buy love. Or respect.

2. In the end, it's their country: we will leave, and they will still be there, like the rocks and the hills. Accept it, you're not gonna change it.

3. Maybe you think that this time "it's different", but it's not - it's just a matter of time that you realize that Noi and Nit and Noo are just same shit, different day. The Russians, Brits, Greeks, and Mongolians that came before you all thought they were special, too - and where are they now?

4. Someone who agrees to get fucked in the ass on the first date in exchange for a fistful of cash is probably not your best option for a long-term, meaningful relationship.

5. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl. You think you can change her? You don't know shit about her, let alone enough to change her.

6. Don't fuck the ones with beards.

7. If you ring the bell, be ready to pay the bill.

8. If you walk in and see Pakistanis and Arabs, just turn around and walk the fuck back out, it's not gonna be any fun in there.

9. What looked good when I was drunk and the lights were dim can look like hell in the light of day...

10. Soi 3's not bad for a gyro sandwich and a sheesha, but I wouldn't want to live there.

11. Don't let the mamasan pick your girl.

12. Don't be surprised when the folks back home don't exactly see things the same way you do, probably better to not even try to explain at all.

and so on...

[BelgianBoy]

amen !

great post and true things to remember.

[panadolsandwich]

Very witty reply Yimsiam.

 

It's become abundantly clear that real enemy is the Al-qaeda leadership in Pakistan. So the real question should be - why the hell is the US fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan? Especially because before the US started bombing (Afghanistan) the Taliban made quite a reasonable offer to hand over Bin Laden. In fact the overwhelming evidence is that a diplomatic approach was not even considered. Until certain internal documents are leaked or released - we may never know precisely why - but it's not that hard to infer why. Why has crony capitalism flourished under the government of US supported Hamid Karzai? What was the real story behind the Governer of the Afghan central bank fleeing the country in fear of his life last year? How many US corporations have profited from the war, and by how much? More to the point - why was this war even started when a Morgan-Gallop poll showed even before the bombing started that the overwhelming majority of people in every country in the world was completely against it?

 

The lessons are there alright. You need to read some of the more obscure journals sometimes, because almost all of the juicy details are never reported by the media - and be willing to infer things for yourself - still that's not hard. Or if you can't be buggered there is always Fox news and Bill O'reilly. Let them digest it all for you and let you know how it is, Lol.

[gobbledonk]

PDS, no argument that there are lessons to be learnt from both wars - a lot of the same profiteering you refer to above was even more blatant in Iraq, but the problems there would seem to have slid from the media radar. We are a cynical lot in Australia. but many Americans seem to accept that if the President says 'Weapons of mass destruction' or 'War on terror', then its 100% fine to send their sons to fight for corrupt fuckers like Karzai. The US stopped the Japanese from establishing a fiefdom throughout SE Asia and the South Pacific in WWII, and we have followed them into several conflicts since - I get that - but we are now in a very tricky position. Canberra signed off on rolling Marine deployments in the Top End, then turned around and pissed the Americans off by snuggling up to China. The CIA rolled Gough Whitlam out of the Prime Minister's office back in the 70s after he started asking questions about Pine Gap - fortunately, our current government is busy rolling themselves out without any external assistance.

 

Getting back to the earlier topic, sooner or later the West is going to have to confront at least one of the rogue nuclear powers - do we have to wait until North Korea gets their missile program working before we do that ??