kamui Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 the Swiss were largely left out of WW2 right? Also, isn't Belgium an example of a polyglot if not multi-ethnic country that rebuilt after the war? The Swiss were too important for all parties involved. Being on the side of the democrats and antifascist was Swiss myth. Swiss banks took happily Nazi gold and money, stolen from murdered Jews. Also it wasn't of any strategic value. Historians say, if Swiss would have been in the way of hitler, for example for to move his army, he would have invaded it immediately. As I understand Belgium worked well for many decades, but especially due to economic shifts (a rich part got poorer, a poor part got more rich) and regional nationalist movements along language borders it became dysfunctional. Speaking of countries who rebuilt post war, South Korea has to be mentioned. They are a G20 nation and have a fantastic infrastructure. My uncle fought in the war and large parts of the population were living in mud huts, even in the capital. I saw a great article recently comparing South Korea to Uganda who had the same GNP about 50 years ago. South Korea survived because of the US support. A German-like unification would probably bring the country down financially, since the north is a 3rd World country now. Africa's collective failure to develop seems to have several causes both internal and external factors to blame. I guess they will need some more decades to sort the biggest problems out. Europe needed several hundred years and several devastating wars to become mostly stable. Credit to the Germans and Japanese though, they took advantage of thier opportunity and although its taking them longer, the Chinese have progressed especially in the last 20 years or so. Considering the size of China and the social, economical and political problems the country was and is facing its moving at a lightening speed. Russia is another multi-ethnic and polyglot country and one has to wonder if they were not better off with a Peter the Great type of leader to drag them into modernization. The communist leaders were corrupt, cruel and incompetant. Communism woul have eventually failed but I think if they ran the country under communism with some integrity as well as not look to expand their doctrine by which they would have saved trillons on military expenditures, they'd have made greater strides. Yes, they felt they had to because of America but with the bomb as well as history on thier side (Napolean and the Nazis proved an invasion of Russia is folly) there was no way they'd be invaded. Russia has no tradition of a democratic system. It's just moving between different dictatorial systems and between phases of stability and instability. As long as the massed don't go too hungry, the Russians seem to stick to their non-democratic, more or less brutal leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 I knew a Swiss chef who liked to remind people: "Hitler said, 'Switzerland we take with the fire brigade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Nice one, Flasher - give a German a uniform and he will invade Poland, right ? If Hitler hadn't been such a nutjob, who knows how many of those 'sovereign democracies' would now be colonial outposts run from Berlin. How many more wars would we have seen in Europe if not for the almighty nuke post-1945 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 After the Ukrainian holocaust, the people were completely fed up with Stalin and the Russians. You can find photos and films of the Ukrainians welcoming Hitler's army, toppling statues of Lenin and chasing down the Soviet commissars. If Hitler hadn't been such a racist lunatic, he could have had the Ukraine fighting on his side. It would have been hard for Stalin to stand up to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Nice one, Flasher - give a German a uniform and he will invade Poland, right ? If Hitler hadn't been such a nutjob, who knows how many of those 'sovereign democracies' would now be colonial outposts run from Berlin. How many more wars would we have seen in Europe if not for the almighty nuke post-1945 ? It seems being paronoid/emotionally disabled/mentally disordered is part of a dictator personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Back to the present: Today is the election in Greece. It almost probably will decide the future of the country and in parts of Europe as well. Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Back to the present: Today is the election in Greece. It almost probably will decide the future of the country and in parts of Europe as well. Greek elections: Greece returns to the polls - live coverage Yep - a very scary time indeed. Whoever they elect, I hope its someone with the guts to make a decision and stand by it, even if that decision is to ditch the Euro. Whatever they do, there will be rioting in the streets somewhere - better to go forward than sit on their hands. Markets endlessly trying to 'crystal ball' outcomes is getting us nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Yep - a very scary time indeed. Whoever they elect, I hope its someone with the guts to make a decision and stand by it, even if that decision is to ditch the Euro. Whatever they do, there will be rioting in the streets somewhere - better to go forward than sit on their hands. Markets endlessly trying to 'crystal ball' outcomes is getting us nowhere. A Greek journo just wrote in a German newspaper, that the two major parties which compete against each other are both incompetent and that an Italian solution - a government run by a technocrats - is impossible in Greece. Which means that they are either stuck with left wing anti-Euro politicians who want to stick to the Greek way without paying for it, or old-school conservatives who will not be able to enforce necessary changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 << the two major parties which compete against each other are both incompetent >> Sounds like the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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