A more sober reflection on Soccer and world sports

[itsmedave]

My earlier topic, "England...end of an era" was sort of a "gotcha" for all the soccer b.s. that Americans have to put up with from the Brits. But, in truth, I have watched a fair share of the World Cup games, and it hasn't been as excrutingliating boring as I made it seem.

 

 

 

Soccer really isn't all that bad. But, it could be so much better. In America, we tweak and alter rules nearly every year to continue to try to improve the games of our favorite sports. That's called progress, you keep working to make things better. Soccer just needs to do the same if it wants to expand into mainstream America (although, I doubt that it really does, because I think many Europeans would be well and truly pissed off if we started dominating there too.) This is NOT an antagonistic post, though, so don't get angry at me yet. I promise to be nicer the rest of the way.

 

 

 

Regarding the American sports...Yes, the sports DO have a ton of timeouts. Don't think that we're all that happy about it over in the States, but it's the paradox of capitalism. We need to make the money to pay the players who bring in the money. The best players equal winning which equals more money. Forcing the players to play for a smaller amount might work...but it's not capitalism...it's not the American way...and it's not fair, because the players are the ones bringing in this money and they deserve to make as much as the market will bear. So we will have tv timeouts.

 

 

 

Amercian football does stop after every play, but this is an integral part of the game and not a delay in it. Half the fun as a spectator is during this time. American football has rightly been alluded to as sports version of a ground war. It's all about strategy. Every play is a battle and the game is the war. After a battle the general makes a plan based on the success or failure of the last battle and plans for the next. This is what is happenning between plays, and it can be very involving to put yourself in the role of general and think about what you would do in the situation. You are trying to take the opponents land and they (the defense) are guarding it, and looking to take the offensive.

 

 

 

Also, the players are NOT out of shape. The "skill" positions (quarterback, running back, receivers, and tight ends) are half the team, while the other half (the linemen) are certainly big, but they're also incredibly strong and fast and need to be smart enough to run the battle plan their general dictates. Even for linemen there are many variations to their style of play and they have their own mini gameplan inside the larger team plan. Watch a game sometime just for them, and watch them run an intricate blocking pattern, make a spin move, and then chase down a quarterback half their size and say they're just big blobs. Not true.

 

 

 

My major point about all of this is that if I'm going to watch a professional sport I expect the athletes to be constantly doing things that I could never hope to do. That's what makes it special. In basketball, they jump 3 feet in the air, catch a ball in mid-flight, and slam it down in a hoop barely bigger than the ball and over 10 feet in the air. I can't do that.

 

In football, a receiver runs at blazing speed, and a quarterback throws an oddly shaped ball long before the receiver gets anywhere near where the ball is thrown, times it perfectly, and the receiver catches it, even though there is a defender not 2 feet away who hits him as soon as he makes contact with the ball. I can't do that. In baseball, a pitcher throws a ball the size of a man's fist over 90 miles an hour trying to make the batter miss. The batter, with only a split second to decide if the ball is even hittable, (and with only a stick who's diameter is about the size of the small ball) not only makes contact, but hits it straight over 400 feet in the air. I can't do that.

 

 

 

But in soccer, most of the time, people are kicking a rather large ball back and forth without to much defensive pressure on them, and, when they actually try to score, will frequently miss the rather large goal area by a large margin. This is deemed acceptable by the fans who's reaction is "oh, darn" instead of "what an idiot...replace him with somebody who knows how to kick the ball" I'm not saying I could do any better, but unlike the American sports, I absolutely can miss the goal by a wide margin too. No problem. This is why the game is pretty much relegated to small children in America. It is a game for the middle class kids who can't compete in the other sports. You can be smaller, slower, less coordinated, and miss the goal by 15 feet. This doesn't wash in big time American sports.

 

 

 

Now, how would I alter the rules of soccer to make it more exciting, more fair, and more watchable for an audience with attention span issues? (and why shouldn't we have a short attention span...we're paying big money to go to these games and spending our precious leisure time on them...why not demand something truly exciting in exchange?)

 

 

 

First, the referee's cannot be allowed to determine the winner of the game. Instant replay on goal scoring situations is a must...and possibly even for yellow and red card fouls. Will it disrupt the flow of the game? Yes. Is it more important that the proper team wins? YES!!! And is the difference between 90 minutes and 97 minutes really that big of a deal? Not for me, anyway.

 

 

 

Second, get rid of the offsides rule. This is a pathetic rule to save the players from playing defense and lower the chances of scoring in a game which already has too few chances. If players can play anywhere on the field then more strategy comes into play which makes the game more interesting and increases the chances of scoring. Also, referee's will no longer be able to disallow goals using this rule.

 

 

 

Third, add 2 more players to each side, making it 12 non-goalies on the field for each side. But, these 12 will be separated into offense and defense. These 6 man teams are only allowed on one half of the field. In this way, with only six defenders and one on one matchups against 6 scorers, really good play will be rewarded with goals far more often. Also, now you can really train your offensive team to be expert at kicking to the goal posts because this will be their only responsability. For once, we'll have players doing things that I could admire and say, "Wow, I wish I could do that."

 

 

 

Fourth, make the penalties matter. Commit a foul and you're sent off for 1 minute of game time. Commit two and its two minutes, etc. Make it fair for both sides. Why should the defenders have so many rules to protect them?

 

 

 

Will it be the same game you've been playing so long? No. But that shouldn't really matter. The real question should be: Would it be better?

 

 

 

Thoughts???

[BadaBing]

I don't really pay much attension to the game , but since you asked:

 

 

 

The instant reply rule might make it more fair , but like american football , could take forever for them to make the correct call.

 

 

 

eliminate the offsides , could make it more interesting , but then teams could designate " cherry pickers " those who dont play , only wait. But then again , that would eliminate your thought of adding more players and cutting the field in half. Which I wouldnt like anyway.

 

 

 

As for 1 foul / 1 minute 2 fouls / 2 minutes

 

That wouldnt work either , the game would be marred by players crying foul , why you called me for this and not him for that.

 

 

 

Since the color cards seem to be for the most blantant fouls , how about yellow = 5 minutes , a red would be 10 minutes , sitting 10 minutes is certainly better than an ejection for his team and a nice advantage for the other. Similar to the major penalties called in ice hockey.

 

 

 

BadaBing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

If we're really going to screw with the rules of soccer, why not use a rule from basketball -- once the ball passes midfiled [halfcourt] you can't take it back over the line? Confining the action to the attacking end might yield more attacks and more goals.

[racha]

American football is not much more than a curiosity in most of the world,

 

 

 

The rules of soccer do change nearly every year to try and keep up with the times and also to help make it a more exciting game to watch,

 

 

 

If you have ever played soccer you would know actually how skillful and difficult the game is, I was a keen player of many sports such as Rugby ,Soccer and also Australian Rules and I do like most sports in general, I even watched the last two super bowls but then again I play chess sometimes as well

 

 

[Long Gun]

Dave

 

 

 

Are you really saying that you wrote this when you were sober?!? Not been indulging in a little chemical or alcoholic comfort to help you cope with the USA's gallant exit?

 

 

 

At first I thought it might be another article from ?The Onion? and considered abusing my moderator?s privileges and deleting your post for trolling but there is something strange about it which makes me think you might even believe some of this and, lest anyone else might take any of it seriously (the recent Onion thread on guns shows how possible that is) I can?t resist adding a few comments.

 

 

 

Soccer really isn't all that bad. But, it could be so much better.

 

 

 

Strangely enough, Dave, the most popular sport in the world has managed to struggle along in pretty much the same manner for well over 100 years. If the only way to get Americans to join in with the rest of the planet is to change the very basics of the game then fuck the lot of them (except Claudio Reyna!) and leave them to battle it out in those globally popular world championships that they are so good at organising amongst themselves. BTW Did I ever tell you that I am the World Champion at spitting watermelon seeds into my waste paper bin? It's true, since 4.30 pm today!

 

 

 

In America, we tweak and alter rules nearly every year to continue to try to improve the games of our favorite sports. That's called progress, you keep working to make things better.

 

 

 

Aren't most of those 'improvements' just made to pander to the capitalist motives you discuss later. I really don't see that they improve the 'sport'. A definition from Websters ?an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition?. No mention of sponsors or advertising there! One of the main reasons that football is the most popular sport in the world is its simplicity, its lack of complicated rules which enable just about anybody to watch and enjoy even if they might miss the occasional subtlety. The fact that anyone can play it anywhere, no special equipment or environment needed, a rolled up piece of paper and a couple of stones will do just fine, allows total access to the entire population. Many football stars emerge from total poverty, there are no barriers, no pretend university degrees needed, just the ability to do what most other people can?t with a football.

 

 

 

After a battle the general makes a plan based on the success or failure of the last battle and plans for the next. This is what is happenning between plays, and it can be very involving to put yourself in the role of general and think about what you would do in the situation. You are trying to take the opponents land and they (the defense) are guarding it, and looking to take the offensive.

 

 

 

But you have NO control over what actually then happens. Best stick to computer games really.

 

 

 

Even for linemen there are many variations to their style of play and they have their own mini gameplan inside the larger team plan. Watch a game sometime just for them, and watch them run an intricate blocking pattern, make a spin move, and then chase down a quarterback half their size and say they're just big blobs. Not true.

 

 

 

What would you say would be the total mileage covered by those guys in an average game? And how many games are there in a season? How would you think they would cope with 60+ games at 90+ minutes at the pace of an average football game?

 

 

 

My major point about all of this is that if I'm going to watch a professional sport I expect the athletes to be constantly doing things that I could never hope to do. That's what makes it special. In basketball, they jump 3 feet in the air, catch a ball in mid-flight, and slam it down in a hoop barely bigger than the ball and over 10 feet in the air. I can't do that.

 

 

 

Dave, without getting personal, your build doesn?t really lend itself to that sort of activity! What you are watching has some similarity to a freak show, they can do that, in most cases, because they are abnormally tall. It is not possible for most normal athletes to do that. Why have a game where being tall is such a ridiculous advantage. That has nothing to do with sporting excellence. There are probably thousands of young Americans with far greater skills than most of those guys who are totally excluded for being normal/poor/whatever. Have you been to Ripleys?

 

 

 

Interesting how often, under pressure, with nobody doing anything to stop them doing something they practice hundreds of times every day, they still can?t throw that ball through that hoop though, isn?t it? Sometimes, though, you could do that.

 

 

 

In football, a receiver runs at blazing speed, and a quarterback throws an oddly shaped ball long before the receiver gets anywhere near where the ball is thrown, times it perfectly, and the receiver catches it, even though there is a defender not 2 feet away who hits him as soon as he makes contact with the ball. I can't do that.

 

 

 

Sorry Dave, throwing and catching are VERY basic skills. There are all sorts of other factors in there which make it difficult, and in many cases the main factor is bravery and the willingness to take that hit in order to make that throw or catch. Again, a willingness to be battered to fuck has little to do with sport, otherwise they wouldn?t have all those other blokes there running around trying to stop that happening. BTW, please be specific, you are talking about AMERICAN football here, the one where people don?t usually use their feet other than for standing and moving around on.

 

 

 

In baseball, a pitcher throws a ball the size of a man's fist over 90 miles an hour trying to make the batter miss. The batter, with only a split second to decide if the ball is even hittable, (and with only a stick who's diameter is about the size of the small ball) not only makes contact, but hits it straight over 400 feet in the air. I can't do that.

 

 

 

You probably could, but not very often. Waving a stick at a ball, again, not exactly complicated is it? Just out of interest, Dave, how many times is the ball thrown in an average baseball game, how many times does the batter make contact and how often does it actually travel 400 feet? Most times they miss, although, if the other bloke can?t throw the ball straight, you get to score anyway! Running around bases certainly requires athleticism but, again, not exactly a lot of skill.

 

 

 

But in soccer, most of the time, people are kicking a rather large ball back and forth without to much defensive pressure on them, and, when they actually try to score, will frequently miss the rather large goal area by a large margin. This is deemed acceptable by the fans who's reaction is "oh, darn" instead of "what an idiot...replace him with somebody who knows how to kick the ball" I'm not saying I could do any better, but unlike the American sports, I absolutely can miss the goal by a wide margin too. No problem. This is why the game is pretty much relegated to small children in America. It is a game for the middle class kids who can't compete in the other sports. You can be smaller, slower, less coordinated, and miss the goal by 15 feet. This doesn't wash in big time American sports.

 

 

 

Dave, this is complete inflammatory bollocks, and you know it! You could miss the baseball, you could fumble the pass, you could miss the free throw, over and over again. What you could NOT ever do is what Ronaldhino did against England ? assess a situation in a split second and calculate the precise force and trajectory necessary to put the ball in just about the only place possible where the goalkeeper couldn?t get it. Missing a decent chance at goal is far less acceptable than missing that ball with your stick a few times and anyone who does it consistently will not be a successful player.

 

 

 

{b}Now, how would I alter the rules of soccer to make it more exciting, more fair, and more watchable for an audience with attention span issues? ???????. [/b]

 

 

 

At this point MY attention span shortens beyond existence.

 

 

 

Will it be the same game you've been playing so long? No. But that shouldn't really matter. The real question should be: Would it be better?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Thoughts??? [/b]

 

 

 

Bag of shite, mate.

 

 

[Hidy Ho]

<<<My major point about all of this is that if I'm going to watch a professional sport I expect the athletes to be constantly doing things that I could never hope to do. That's what makes it special. >>>

 

 

 

Dave,

 

 

 

I gather you must not have soccer that much growing up ... I played the game growing up ... to high school .. in USA.

 

 

 

The quality of football you are seeing at the world cup IS something most of us never, never come close to doing. The quality of pass, touch, shooting, heading and physical stamina is quite amazing. And it can get physically brutal. I think perhaps these guys make it so easy on TV.

 

 

 

IMHO, the level of USA's quality is amazing considering how little support of the game is given in 'da hood. The other two big games in US, NBA and NFL is big in the inner city. Baseball gets plenty of foreign help at the top level.

 

 

 

Maybe things will change ... but due to the nature of the game, it will be very difficult to get major exposure on the TV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pattaya127]

Soccer really isn't all that bad. But, it could be so much better. In America, we tweak and alter rules nearly every year to continue to try to improve the games of our favorite sports.

 

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not sure how much you know about soccer. Rules there are also changed every now and then. Changes are tried at international junior games, then brought up in the mainstream of they work to enliven the game or prevent its stalling (as the italians love to do). Why don't we agree that the love of a sport is about its culture, not its rules or histrionics. I do understand that football and base-ball are part of the american psyche, hence not an easy export, save a few countries. What surprises the rest of the world (not in frustration, whatever your little heart desires after all, but in puzzlement) is that a sport that is UNIVERSALLY loved from Tibet to Patagonia only elicits mild interest in USA, so far at least.

 

I also find that many people here do not love football and base-ball as they used to. for football, i hear about too much money and pricey tickets, too much violence ( college foot more fun), and too many drugs (in and out the game) and low behaviour standards (outside the game). for base-ball, editorials are plenty about how to save the game from its plummeting TV shares.

 

One thing too about soccer, is that absolutely evryone can play it by the same rules as the pros. You only need a ball and an empty field. I see people throwing balls on the week-end or playing soft ball, but to play US football and base-ball as pros do it, you need equipment and pro skills. This difference also helps bringing soccer from the cultural realm to the a very tactile brotherhood with anyone playing it, week-enders, old, young, pros mesmerized by a ball that just won't stand still and begs for control and direction.

 

 

[Steve]

Well Itsmedave, you sure opened up a hornets nest but I suspect you knew that all along. lol.

 

As an American who enjoys 'soccer' I do not try to defend the sport. I used to but no longer. FIFA isn't waiting on pins and needles for America to support it. It would be nice, don't get me wrong, but I suspect many people see the need for acceptance of soccer as Americans see the need for Europe to accept American style football.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough in America, baseball was the king sport for a long time. Football replaced it in the '70s and basketball replaced it also in the '80s. Its 3rd and ice hockey is closing fast although I don't think it will catch it. So, one can make an argument that even Americans find baseball boring. At least boring enough to replace it with 2 other sports. Myself and many others are starting to prefer college football and basketball to the pros because the college game can be more exciting and the enthusiasm and love for the sport and their school pride adds to the game. Soccer can lay claim to the fact that it hasn't had any challenges to its supremacy for a century.

 

Professional soccer in Europe and elsewhere, offers the same enthusiasm and love for the sport that is lacking each year in American sports. Its tragic to see where (American) football is going. I still love the sport but even that is changing...and not for the better. Teams leaving cities at the drop of a hat, where they have loyal fans who come out to support them even when they are losing.

 

Premiership teams have that loyalty. There is no way Newcastle will leave to relocate in Leeds or London, no matter how much money. There doesn't seem to be that loyalty anymore in football. I'm all for capitalism, but sometimes the chase for money, bigger stadiums with sky boxes, etc. takes something away from the game. Is there even a decent rivalry left? The derby (rivalries to us Yanks) matches are uncomparable if you were to attend an Arsenal v. Tottenham game or a Liverpool v. Everton game or Newcastle v. Sunderland. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

"Is there even a decent rivalry left?"

 

 

 

Yankees-Red Sox, Giants-Dodgers, 49ers-Packers, Browns-Ravens

[Steve]

2 out of the 4 (Yankees/Redsox) and Dodgers/Giants is a so so rivalry IMO. 49ers aren't good anymore and the two don't meet in the playoffs anymore and it was a short lived one. It was 49ers / Dallas before that. If you mention football, I'd say Oakland and KC is more intense. Actually Oakland and anyone in that division. But I digress.

 

 

 

Also, the first two are baseball and I was referring to football. I didn't mean to say there were no rivalries. Just that its not the same anymore. Would you agree? Maybe not. Knowing both sports (American football and soccer), the rivalries in the Premiership is FAR more intense than the NFL.