Pattaya Paradise Lost - Things Fall Apart

[pattaya127]

the mandatory sentence for lese majeste is 11 years, no royal pardon granted.

 

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In the history of this lese-majesty law, do you know how many thais, roughly, are falling every year, under it, and of pardons have been given, since its modern inception? A very well educated thai friend of mine told me HM can pardon if he wishes too. A candid question to an expat in the know, not an argument. (still waiting also for a round-up of world hierarchy in Muay thai, Thais vs foreigners. I think i asked a week ago responding to your post on the subject) Thanks

[pattaya127]

thailand was not created so that western males can live their phantasies

 

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I was going to answer Zane, agreeing that things are not what they used to be, sob, sob, and then i read your post. I just think there are tons of good points to be said for each side. personally, i always liked Pattaya because of the microcosm of human nature and behaviours one can ponder about there. because i got to know many girls and their friends very well, because i am not crazy about bars and gogos, and Pattaya can provide much more than these 2. I had Gfs in BKK, there is just very little we could do during the day, but in Pattaya, you can use a bike and criss-cross the region for temples, little villages, and the atmosphere of the city itself, away from Beach Rd is thai and relaxed enough, whereas i would have to go miles from Sukhumvit or Patpong to get that kind of laid-back atmosphere. I do not think that enjoying Pattaya and the now gone late hours was so immoral than that. Zane implies that it's only the powers to be (economic, politic) who want to clean up the city,for their own reasons of image and greed. I indeed do believe that it's not a sense heightened morality that motivates them, and more the current mood of "Thailand to thais". Of course, Thailand will not be given to thais more than it is now, just a slogan but allows for some greed re-orientation. I bet you know that better than me. And still, your point is valid. We may regret a certain Pattaya long gone, but Thailand for those who truly love this country is a state of mind, neither a locality, nor a set of rules.

[pattaya127]

 

 

Simply put, Thais make the laws. Thais are also the enforcers of the law. Thais are the ones who allow some laws to be bent. For example, prostitution is illegal but it is allowed to exist openly in a certain manner where it concerns the farang scene.

 

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Exactly, and they have nothing to do with "thainess", which is the soul of a people. Laws may promote or circumvene certain behaviours, but one does not regulate cultural uniquenes, centuries in the making. I hope one can't!

[pattaya127]

Personally, I always thought of Pattaya (the part that caters to the nightlife) as a semi-cesspool. A place for the hardcore and the depraved. I a not referring to the young ladies of course, but I am referring to the hordes of farangs that flock there like it is some sort of Mecca.

 

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cool enough, but by the same token, you probably avoid all the farang spots in Thailand, be it an Island, BKK tourist (a)venues, and even Chiang Mai moat area.

 

As i just said in the post to Fly, I dig Pattaya for the opposite reasons you enounce. I rarely see any public depravation in Pattaya, a katoey may uncover his implants, a farang may be suspiciously walking with a young boy, but hardly "in your face"stuff. I guess one can ask or strive to absolutely see this, but then that can done in BKK too then. I do agree that guys who come to Pattaya just to be in Sukhumvit by the sea, may wonder what the point of the trip, but i am proof that you can dig the place without ever entering a gogo or sitting at a bar, still have a lot of good things happen to you, any hour of the day. Of course, there are the drugs, but hell, if i want to cover a depraved or druggy atmosphere, I'll go to thermae or Grace coffee shop rather. And come out of it, thinking it's not as bad as it looks, same as Pattaya. There are more depraved, and definitely sadder, derelict neighbourhoods in San Francisco than the tourist ghettos in LOS. Thais may do what they want with their country, but "farang males" absolutely do not bring wholesale depravation and misery to the Kingdom. IMO

[JJsushi]

Exactly, and they have nothing to do with "thainess", which is the soul of a people. Laws may promote or circumvene certain behaviours, but one does not regulate cultural uniquenes, centuries in the making. I hope one can't!

 

[color:purple] I said "Thai" uniqueness concerning the rules, laws standards, practice, etc. I made no mention of "Thainess" concerning the souls of the people. I hope this additional clarification helps you.

 

 

 

BTW- laws can shape a culture as well as a culture can shape laws. color=purple>

[JJsushi]

but by the same token, you probably avoid all the farang spots in Thailand, be it an Island, BKK tourist (a)venues, and even Chiang Mai moat area.

 

[color:purple] When I speak of Pattaya I speak of the farang oreinted spots. I actually stayed a month in Pattaya four years ago at a girlfriends house, we may have hit the farang nightspots about once a week. The rest of the city and surrounding area is nice although a bit slow paced for me.

 

I do avoid most farang oriented spots. This of course does not mean I don't go to any farang entertainment spots. I do on a sporadic basis for a couple of hours or if I am hanging out with some friends from the States( I recently spent 2 days in Pattaya for Songkran, 5 of my friends were there for 2 weeks so I partied with them, I had the girlfriend in tow of course) .

 

95% of the time I travel to LOS alone and I have a decent network of Thai friends that keep me occupied hanging out in Thai spots. color=purple>

[zanemay]

Dear Mr. Fly,

 

 

 

You make a very good point that I was aware of before writing this:

 

 

 

"Thailand was not created so that western males can live their fantasies." The fact is that I enjoy living out mine and Pattaya, not Thailand, is a place where I have done it. I am lamenting the possibility that the day may come when things might not be the same. Many people, Thai and farang, will applaud this. I love wide open freedom and I will not.

 

 

 

It was particularly distressing to me that such words as: "Government is an extension of the King, the King is good. Without question." could in any way be interpreted as disrespectful. I believe that this King is good without question. I flew from Phuket to Bangkok to attend HRMs birthday celebratrion and I really am in awe of his presence. Thailand is lucky to have the institution of the monarchy in its present condition and especially lucky to have such a wonderful man for it's King. I praise him to my family and friends in the US. He is the symbol of the country, not just a figurehead; and he is the father figure of all Thai people.

 

 

 

I have the utmost respect for him and have never said or written a disrespectful word about him. There is a wise guideline for this website that outlaws any disrespect to the monarchy and I think it is a good one. Not for fear of reprisal, but because you have shown me that it is possible to misinterpret what I wrote, I have edited my two small references to His Majesty out of my post.

 

 

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Zane

[Guest]

Although, I am not a huge fan of Pattaya, I can relate a lot with your points about PC. I hate everything about "PC" and have come to Thailand (and many developing contries) over the years as much to enjoy the "casualness" that comes with cultures not yet poisoned by the spread of PC, as well as for the uniqueness of a place.

 

Even in the states (I believe, the home of the PC movement) 20 or 30 years ago, or even 10 years ago, life used to be a lot more laid back and people weren't so careful about what they said and did.

 

All I can say is, have you thought about Cambodia?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Should delete any refrences to HRM on a thread like this.

[Lord Toad]

There are various issues here.

 

For me Pattaya can never be a proper international beach resort?.it was ruined years ago. It is now a badly planned concrete jungle and I doubt that efforts to reinvent it and get rid of it?s seedy reputation will work?..well certainly not in the short term.

 

And of course there are many wealthy Thais who benefit from the bars and the nightlife. So if the crack downs go too far then expect pressure to see them stopped. There is little doubt in my mind that the recent zoning bill passed in Bangkok is evidence of internal politics. It is nothing like the proposed bill, and looks like a waste of legislative time.

 

Many middle class Thai?s are upset by the country?s and particularly Pattaya?s reputation abroad and support attempts to reverse that trend. However if the result is a fall in tourist revenues that ultimately affects them, there could well be a change of heart. Many organisations, including the Thai Hotel owners, are beginning to look at the crackdown as the reason for tourism being down, rather than the popular excuse of 9/11. We shall see, as tourism is too important to the Thai economy to screw it up. However having said that there is much pressure, including from some tour companies, to clean up the Thai image. Although nobody seems to be looking at the spend per head of a typical package tourist, as opposed to a party animal. Or dare I say it sex tourist.

 

The social order crack down is almost universally ridiculed as a something that is misguided and misdirected. Who ever thought closing bars at 2 would stop drug sales obviously knows nothing about drug sales. However it has proved a popular crusade with many Thai?s. Personally I think 2 am closing is doing real damage to Thai tourism. I expect it will fade away eventually.

 

The trouble with the law in Thailand is that, as a foreigner, the law is whatever the official you are talking to says it is. That particularly includes the police, who by their own admission are corrupt. At the end of the day you have to decide whether you will put up with the problems, lets be honest for most of us there are few, and the dodgy rules, and get on and enjoy what is here.

 

Up to you!