Pattaya Paradise Lost - Things Fall Apart

[Stickman]

You've been coming here for a year and a half...and I wonder just how well you understand all that goes on in the naughty nightlife industry... For the customers, it might seem like heaven, but for the girls, it is so often like hell. While they may smile and put on a brave face, so much of what happens provides mere temporary relief to the girls, but also inflicts long term damage.

 

 

 

The authorities might come up with all sorts of reasons as to why crackdowns take place - and their PR machine sure could do with some assistance here, but at the end of the day we are dealing with prostitution. And where we find prostituion, we so often find other problems that feed off it. And at the end of the day, they are trying to eliminate some of these problems, clean Thailand up, and make it a better place. Can you blame them?

 

 

 

I can understand why you are disappointed at the chanegs that are taking place, and I once shared the same thoughts. But now, when I think long and hard about it, I really hope they crush prostitution here...though that is most likely wishful thinking. I know I would hate to see my country have a prostitution industry like Thailand does.

 

 

 

Stick

[zanemay]

vtombrown,

 

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated. But I do hope the thread runs a bit longer.

 

 

 

Mr. Stickman,

 

 

 

I am really surprised at your words. Perhaps I have not kept up with your work of late, but the original Stickman's Guide was anything but negative towards the business of working girls. You have been a bit of an idol to me and I am loathe to disagree with you.

 

 

 

But you have changed - of course everything changes - and I can only guess that you have been troubled by people who have attacked your work and that also you are settled into a comfortable relationship with a good woman. You can now do without the attentions of the sweeties. (I am guessing, so pardon me if I err.)

 

 

 

Congratulations to you on your happy life, but given my nature - let's say that of the roving eye - the monogamous option is not available for me in any country. Thailand as it has been, is a great place for me.

 

 

 

I am pretty aware of what makes the world of the nightlife go around, at least the small part that involves farangs. I have two heart-to-heart gfs who have worked their trade for a long time. A ten year freelancer in BKK and a seven year Bar Girl in Pattaya. They tell me everything about the ins and outs, the feelings people from home have about them and their relations with their friends and families, other bar girls and their bosses. These ladies have maintained good spirits and happy hearts through the various good and bad times of their work. They have supported their children and parents well and bought homes and land. Not all girls are the same. Certainly many are not cut out for this kind of work and it takes a heavy toll on them.

 

 

 

You also make prostitution in Thailand sound like prostitution everywhere and it certainly is not. US prostitution is rampant, but is associated with really evil drugs and criminal activity. Except in Nevada where it is legal, taxed and over-regulated. In Thailand we have a system of amazing trust wherein a girl goes off with a stranger, often not asking where they are going and not telling anyone so they can come look for her if she goes missing. 99% of the time the girl and the farang emerge happily from the experience. Is that why they call it "Amazing Thailand," because that really is amazing?

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Zane

[cardinalblue]

zanemay,

 

 

 

I think you are quite accuarate in your assessment but looking at the glass only half empty. How many places in the world can you go and get a decent-looking girl for 1000 to 2000 baht, sleep with her all night, not worry too much about getting scammed by her, not fear for own's personal safety within the environment you meet her, bring her to and from your room without any hassles. And the best yet, have the bellboy/security guard salute you on your way of the door.

 

 

 

Yes, things are changing but maybe you need to change with the times somewhat as well. You sure will be happier if you accept these changes and go with the flow. Those who live in the past are ones who are not enjoying the present nor happily planning one's future.

 

 

 

Let go and enjoy what is STILL around. If you don't want to pay 170b for a beer, find a different place that suits your desires. I promise you there is still a lot of fun places to be enjoyed in LOS. Maybe you just have to look a little bit harder than before. I sure have had to.

 

 

 

Cardinalblue

[thai3]

 

 

The 'paradise' was paved over about 30 odd years ago, and it's been downhill since then, not just the last 12 months. I first went in '94 and even then they were talking about turning back the nightlife and making it more of a family destination. As for it being a 'unique fairyland' I cannot understand how anyone can see it as fairyland, a sleazy, tacky and cheap open whorehouse maybe. I have never found it atractive in the least and if it all closed down next week it would not bother me much. Happily there are many aspects of Thailand which make it enchanting, Pattaya is not one of them though.-peter

[Guest]

i can't remeber in what context you asked me that muay thai question, can you point me to the thread again please?

 

 

 

i have no idea how many people fall under the lese majeste law every year, i only know that it is taken very serious.

 

 

 

my feelings about pattaya:

 

i think pattaya is from a sociological viewpoint a fascinating place. but i feel also that pattaya is an eyeore. i can fully understand why thais would want to close it down.

 

i personally am embarrassed to be a westerner whenever i am there. hords of the lowest scum of our parts of the world behaving like wild animals.

 

how would you feel if a place like that would exist in your homecountry where, lets say, hundreds of thousands of arabs come every year to indulge in every imaginable form of sex with girls from all over your country?

[USVirgin]

how would you feel if a place like that would exist in your homecountry where, lets say, hundreds of thousands of arabs come every year to indulge in every imaginable form of sex with girls from all over your country?

 

 

 

I never hung out in Hollywood too much in the '70s, so it really didn't bother me :-)

 

 

[pattaya127]

Are you sure thais will be going after the thai side of "seedy" prostitution as they overtly do the farang's? Already, it is well known that some joints patronized by thais are functionning late into the night in BKK, and the police knows, as you can guess yourself. Will they do something about underage (18-) prostitution, the lowest number of which is estimated in the 10 000s, and yes, the police knows too. I do not read your site so i cannot say if you are a bit disingenuous about being so anti-sex tourism, or mainly covering yourself. I believe you are sensible to the plight of young women caught up in the trade, but it's way passed the time that thais start really thinking of the most disfavored in the country as their own co-citizens worthy of respect, protection and help, that would be nice for a start. Changing or going after the bad image is not going to do one piece of good, except sweeping the problem under the rug, and at best, keep it thai. Poor girls......

[Guest]

thanks for editing. problem is that even things that could be misinterpreted can fall under that law and can cause a shitstorm. this is a very sensitive issue in thailand.

 

 

 

the problem i have with your post is that you see pattaya as a place where you could live all your phantasies and you see that threatened now.

 

i can only repeat what sticky said there. you come to thailand only for a very short time and touch in your post a few things you, i am sorry to say this so clear, have not the slightest understanding.

 

lets go to the not so nice realities of pattaya. pattaya is known to harbour more than enough criminals on the run from all over the world. in pattaya mafias from all over are operating freely. violence, massive amount of suicides by both thais and farang, mysterious deaths. basically, that little paradise embarrasses thailand constantly in the international media.

 

yes, thailand has more serious problems than pattaya to solve, but face and status is important to thailand. the existence of pattaya is a constant loss of face. i fully understand the reasoning of the government to try to crack down on the life there.

 

a lot of points i would like to explain here i can't because it is against the rules of the board to discuss politics.

 

 

 

i see in your posts a constant whitewashing of the prostitution, the way how you describe the way how these girls enjoy doing what they are doing. that basically makes me cringe, it shows that you have to spend a lot more time here in thailand and have to learn a lot more about the country and its problems. you are very american here. you take everything at face value. but things are running different in thailand, and judging from your posts, you have a long way to go.

 

in every single post i see you very singlemindely writing about things from your personal viewpoint as a wealthy western male only, but you should start forgetting about yourself sometime and try to put yourself into the shoes of the people here in thailand, try to see things from their viewpoint. but that might very possibly mean to look at yourself in a critical way. can you do that?

 

 

[pattaya127]

hords of the lowest scum of our parts of the world behaving like wild animals.

 

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Publicly, this is just not true, and i do not think that privately, they do worse things than they would do with paid girls in Phuket or BKK. A book like "BKK's twilight zone", about seedy BKK nightlife could have not be made in Pattaya, for example.

 

I know very well about the fat slob syndrom, but I do not see that as misbehaving in itself. To come to Pattaya these days is to see already a lot of farang couples and families on Beach Rd, Royal Gardens, and walking St., day and night. farangs behave appropriately on the whole and the few I meet are a lot more aware of the dos and donts of thai life than tourists in K. Samui or Phuket. Hundred of them are in Pattaya engaged in a monogamous relation with a thai woman, whereas one cannot say that about BKK's soi Cowboy, Patpong and Sukhumvit, esp. around soi 7/1.

 

If prostitution ceases, no problem with me, but for now, my opinion is that thai girls are in general a lot better off in the company of farangs than thais, if they have to enter the trade. Not that thais may be so bad, but farangs are just totally smitten, prone to marry them a lot or indulge in being in love, which can't be that bad from the receiving side.

[Guest]

i haven't been in pattaya for about two years. with the animals i did not necessarily mean fat old lonely farang, more like german and english hooligans fighting, being drunk, etc.

 

never been in phuket and ko samui, so i can't comment on that.

 

patpong, soi cowboy and nana have been selfcontained small areas, when you did not go in, just passed by, you did not see much. a few areas of wildness in a big city easily avoided (if the bug has not bitten you...!). now it is different of course, the beer bar areas at soi 10 and asoke plaza where girls accost you in the middle of sukhumvit does the scene no service whatsoever. it is too open to be neglected by the authorities, when normal people can't pass by a main road without being grabbed.