Fluency

[gobbledonk]

Markie said:

 

But those that have never spoken English have flawless Thai.

 

I'm assuming that you are talking about the foreign Thai who return to Thailand after a long time overseas ? Does this also apply if they lived in Germany, or wherever : if they learn German, it impacts their ability to speak Thai fluently ?

 

Anyone who has heard Greg Norman speak will be aware of how quickly we can lose our accent and adopt a new one, so I guess its possible for Thais to do the same.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"I've heard falang with flawless Thai."

Did the Thais shared that believe?

 

Not meant as criticism, but it is much easier for a non-Thai to believe that another non-Thai's Thai is fluent than it is for a Thai to believe so.

 

I too am of the believe that it is very rare that a farang would ever reach this level (talking consistent here, not pronouncing a few sentences only).

 

While I consider my Thai pretty good (I have no problem having a conversation with most Thais of pretty much any subject), I consider myself far from fluent. I also could do with a lot larger vocabulary than the (estimate) 4-5000 words I speak now.

 

Sanuk!

 

[markle]

I mean English as a proxy for all European languages.

 

KS

Yes Thais commented the same. I think that when faced with a falang a Thai's immediate prejudice will prevent them from believing that a falang could speak Thai like a Thai. Remove the visual point of reference and I think they couldn't tell the difference.

 

My point is that being falang doesn't exclude you from being able to speak Thai like a 'native' living here long enough and starting at an early enough age it can happen.

Oh I just though of someone. The 'Thai' model Cindy. She's 100% pure falang, just lived here all her life.

[Guest]

Earlier, it was stated that Jonas spoke Thai like a native, but I just saw him on channel V and I have to admit, that his speech was a bit too slow to be native. Granted he hit most of the tones properly, he did put the wrong tone on some words. That, and on a few occasions, he had came up short when trying to explain something. I think he speaks Thai fairly well, but he is still quite distinguishable from a native.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"The 'Thai' model Cindy. She's 100% pure falang, just lived here all her life."

Which means she then also spend her entire live speaking Thai, and it will be pretty much her mother-tongue (or at least one of them).

Hardly the same as a farang coming here in his twenties or so.

 

Her Thai should be considered a first language, not a second.

 

Sanuk!

 

[gobbledonk]

Good point, KS - I was a little confused by this. As my German teacher said to a prospective student 'You live in a country, you learn the language'. Clearly, the earlier you start, the better you will be.

 

How good is Cindy's English (or the language of the country she originated from) ? Do the Thais accept her as 'one of their own' ? I dont follow modelling, but anyone who can get beyond Prom Queen with a name like 'Cindy' has got to be pretty good at what they do

[markle]

I think we might be getting off the thread here. I for one am getting confused about what we are discussing.

 

He is my contention:

With practice and determination anyone can learn to speak Thai like a 'native'

What is 'native Thai'? There are differences in terms of regional accents, education background, generational trends and ethnic variations. I agree that Jonas's standard Thai is not perfect but I heard his Issan is kickass.

There are a number of things that will hamper the language aquisition process. Age you began learning, interference from a second language, what the second language is, (Asian speakers have an easier time than Europeans, since the languages are more closely related), education, etc. I don't think being non-Thai (definition needed) has alot to do with it.

 

As for Cindy. Well many Thai's don't realise that she's not Thai (in a strictly racial sense).

[Pharcyde]

Considered that you have spent enough time in Thailand, and not only in farang environment, then I think the matter of accent depends on your hearing more than pronounciation.

If you can sing a song from Elvis, then you can speak Thai as native.

Just my thoughts...

[khwaimaisabai]

Hi samak,

You make a very good point. Fluency is important but speaking like a native is less so. So long as you achieve a reasonable level so that you can be easily understood, then there is little value in doing more. We experience this ourselves when we meet people who speak our language well, but have an accent that identifies them as a non-native speaker. This is never a problem.

I come from England and I have an Aunt who came to the country in 1948 to marry my father's brother. She came from Germany and despite having lived in England for 54 years now, rarely speaking German at all, she still has a noticeable German accent. In fact she still always uses the word "mit" instead of the English "with". Despite the accent she is very fluent and communicates perfectly.

Khwai

[whosyourdaddy]

Harrow International school has a Farang with fluent Thai. I was sitting at lunch one day and he came in and started talking behind me and I thought it was a thai until I turned around and commented on his thai.. Asking what subject did he teach, I was surprised he taught THAI. For my ear and the ear of the person who hired him to teach thai to thai kids in thailand he was FLUENT!!