Usa Thread

[dean]

Cav, if quasi governmental businesses like So. Cal Edison can fire their employees to save on wages/benefits, what's to stop state and federal agencies from firing their employees and outsourcing the jobs? States like Illinois, looking at bankruptcy over underfunding employee benefits programs, must be considering the outsource option over raising taxes to fiscally straighten out the mess that they created.

[cavanami]

And what happens to all the people whose jobs got outsourced? unemployment?

Who pays for the unemployment?

 

When quality jobs are outsourced, that reduces the pool of taxpayers. Pressure is not put on businesses to pay more tax, someone, somewhere has to kick in to get benefits paid.

 

One problem is that states for too long have allowed the state employee unions to dictate and now the states are looking at bankruptcy.

 

Look at the teachers union, the quality of education could be vastly improved if the bottom 10% of teachers were removed. These 10% are the poor quality teachers but because of union protection ,they remain.

 

What they hey are unions doing representing state workers?

 

The entire mess has been bubbling over for years now, with no easy fix in sight, IMO.

[Flashermac]

2 January 2015

 

...

 

"In the EMC Research survey, 60 percent of Republicans polled said that, if it was up to them, they would definitely or probably vote for someone other than Boehner as speaker when the new Congress convenes next week. Only 25 percent said they would definitely or probably vote for Boehner’s intramural reelection."

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Buzz/2015/0102/Do-GOP-voters-want-Boehner-out-as-speaker

[unit731]

One problem is that states for too long have allowed the state employee unions to dictate and now the states are looking at bankruptcy.

 

 

Obviously, one doesn't understand nor comprehend what the term Collective Bargaining Agreement means.

[unit731]

Always amazes me when I hear people state that "unions" are running this country.

 

Nay, must be laziness or just plain lack of knowledge.

 

Only 11% of US workers are members of unions. And THEY are "running" this country?

 

Huh?

 

What about George Soros or the Koch Brothers? They are both union members, right?

[Coss]

Always amazes me when I hear people state that "unions" are running this country.

 

Nay, must be laziness or just plain lack of knowledge.

 

Only 11% of US workers are members of unions. And THEY are "running" this country?

 

Huh?

 

What about George Soros or the Koch Brothers? They are both union members, right?

 

To riff on your argument, only 1% of the world's people have circa 60% of the wealth, "And THEY are "running" the world?

 

Huh?"

 

 

[cavanami]

Unions resulted from the companies' poor treatment of the workers.

 

Unions for state and federal employess resulted from greedy unions, IMO.

 

Collective bargaining, union speak for trying to squeeze more from the company.

 

Do a google (or whatever) and you will find that more unions have been voted OUT then

have been voted in, in the past few decades.

 

Why? have employees recognized that unions are just another big business leaching off the workers? maybe...

[unit731]

“Half a million low-wage workers will get a raise in April, when Walmart lifts hourly wages at its stores in the United States to at least $9. The raise, announced this week, appears to be an attempt to stem employee turnover and to respond to pressure for higher wages from politicians, labor groups and employees. Walmart also pledged to raise its wage floor in 2016 to $10 an hour.

 

 

There is also little doubt that Walmart (and other employers) would pay more if low wages were not, in effect, subsidized by taxpayers, who pay for the food stamps and other public assistance that low-wage workers rely on to get by. This argues for improved labor standards that would shift the burden back to employers.â€

[Steve]

Cav, if quasi governmental businesses like So. Cal Edison can fire their employees to save on wages/benefits, what's to stop state and federal agencies from firing their employees and outsourcing the jobs? States like Illinois, looking at bankruptcy over underfunding employee benefits programs, must be considering the outsource option over raising taxes to fiscally straighten out the mess that they created.

 

I believe Calinfornia's DMV (had or do) have their customer service outsourced outside the country.

[Steve]

Unions resulted from the companies' poor treatment of the workers.

 

Unions for state and federal employess resulted from greedy unions, IMO.

 

Collective bargaining, union speak for trying to squeeze more from the company.

 

Do a google (or whatever) and you will find that more unions have been voted OUT then

have been voted in, in the past few decades.

 

Why? have employees recognized that unions are just another big business leaching off the workers? maybe...

 

The Demcratic party greatly distanced themselves from unions with the Presidency of Clinton who was a member of the Democratic Leadership Council which were centrists within the party who said if you want to win national elections you must embrace business not unions.

 

Anyway, the Republicans are seen as anti union which makes sense since they are funded primarily by big business. Notice they NEVER have a problem with police and fire unions? Why not? They vote republican in national elections. Why not teachers unions? They tend to vote Democrat, hence the Republicans wanting to kill the Department of Education.

 

Anyway, unions were vital for the middle class of America in the northeast and rust belt. Unquestionably. Look across New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc.all those millions of homes you see were primarily built by union wages. Ford started it, with the $5 work day. Unimaginable but his workers could then afford to buy the cars they made, get a mortgage, send their kids to better schools and college.

 

The union wages in the industrial north BUILT the backbone of America and is one of the main reasons why the north continued to surpass the south economically in the 20th century.

 

Union wages allowed workers to get a home and there are a myriad of industries tied to the purchase of a home, furnsihings, food, etc, it recycled those dollars into the local economy. There is absolutely no doubt from an economical view that union wages paid for itself many times over by recirculating those dollars into goods and services. Those union wages helped increase the university system. For the first time poor european immigrants and later blacks were able to send their kids to college. Only the upper middle class could afford college before.

 

Did unions get corrupted? Certainly, but overall far, far more good than bad. The companies that were unionized continued to prosper and make a profit. Detroit didn't go bad because of unions, it went badly from shoddy products. They knowingly made cars that would need to be replaced every 2 or 3 years in the '70s because they played on the loyalty Americans had to brands. Families were 'Ford families' or 'Buick families'. Generationally they bought the same cars and Detroit CEOs, the bastards, thought the loyalty will have them buying every 2 or 3 years instead of 5-7 prior. Japan increased quality dramatically in the '70s as they saw market share over profit.

 

The airline industry didn't go badly over unions but simple mismangement. Factories left America not because the couldn't make money but was to go back to pre-union cheap labor.

 

City, state and federal unions created the back midde class. Unions were not bringing in blacks initially, not until the mid to late 70s in great numbers. Before that public jobs were the only jobs blacks could get and those jobs, postal worker, garbagemen, black women with secretary schools working in the offices built the black middle class, afforded millions to be able to buy homes. In the 1800s the Irish did the same. The Irish moved out of squalor by controling city government and patronage gave the hundreds of thousands of poor Irish city jobs that were later unionized that got them out of poverty, later other groups depending on their demographics in numbers such as the Polish in Chicago and Milwaukee. The italians in Philadelphia and parts of NYC.The police force for the Irish in Chicago, Boston and NYC which made an Irish accented policman a stereotype in movies and television with so many as cops. Later the Italians.

 

Unions historically, over their history were a godsend for America and post WW2 built up Europe. Today is a different question, some can argue the need but as far as history? No question whatsoever.