Submarines not worth the money

[Flashermac]

Bangkok Post

29 Mar 2011

 

 

Opinion by Veera Prateepchaikul

 

 

 

The Thai military has a history of bad decisions and wasteful spending in making arms acquisitions which have cost the taxpayers huge amounts of money. The Royal Thai Navy's plan to buy old submarines from Germany could well be just another wrong decision.

 

The Royal Thai Navy’s long-standing dream of having a submarine fleet appears about to be fulfilled now that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has approved, in principle, its proposal to purchase six 30-plus-year old German submarines at a cost of 7.7 billion baht.

 

Besides the security and skills training reasons cited to justify the acquisition of the submarines, an informed source said, a major argument behind the move is that the Thai navy will be left way behind the times without submarines.

 

The navy’s wish for a submarine fleet, no matter of how old they are, has received strong backing from Deputy Prime Minister in charge of security affairs Suthep Thaugsuban. He said the submarines were necessary to protect Thailand’s territorial waters and maritime resources, and that other countries in the region already have submarines, which could pose a threat to Thailand’s national interests.

 

Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia do have submarines, and Vietnam has placed orders for six Kilo-class submarines from Russia, leaving Thailand in the league of poor countries in the region which cannot afford submarines -- countries such as Cambodia and Burma, and also land-locked Laos, which couldn't possibly need them.

 

This probably is something that the top brass at the Thai navy cannot tolerate and that has kept alive their ambition for a submarine fleet, ever since their dream to acquire two used submarines from the Swedish firm Kockums was shot down back in 1996 because, yes, Thailand couldn't afford them at the time.

 

So, what has changed?

 

From the narrow viewpoint of the navy top brass, 7.7 billion baht for six used German submarines is worthwhile spending, despite the fact that they are being decommissioned and good for only another 10 years.

 

But this means that in 10 years they will without a doubt want to buy a newer fleet of submarines - to keep up appearances - at even greater cost.

 

But the 7.7 billion baht price tag, which is staggering for submarines which are more than 30 years old, is just the starting price. There are additional costs - crewing and training, provision of docking and maintenance facilities, and the cost regular maintenance itself just to keep them operational.

 

[color:red]It's questionable if the Thai navy has any clear idea how much this will cost each year. Don't forget, the German navy decided to decommission the submarines because the high cost of keeping these ageing, obsolete war machines operational is just not worth it.[/color]

 

Can the Thai navy afford the maintenance costs without asking for even more budget funds from the government? Just look at the Chakri Naruebet aircraft carrier as a good example of why not. The ship has been docked at Sattahip naval base for most of this year, and most other years since it was purchased, during which its time it has been turned into a tourist attraction, because the navy does not have enough money to put the carrier into service. And the Harrier jump jets that came with the ship are all grounded for lack of spare parts.

 

Then there is a question of the submarines themselves. Can submarines built with technology now more than 30 years old match the capabilities of modern day frigates equipped with high-tech communications and detection gear, and guided missiles, which can be acquired at a comparatively cheaper cost?

 

Security considerations may not be the primary reason for the Thai navy’s ambition for a submarine fleet. The navy top brass should, after all, be fully aware that a 30-year old submarine is no match for a fast surface ship equipped with anti-submarine weaponry. That is their particular area of professed professionalism.

 

So, it may just boil down to the question of pride and dignity: why can’t Thailand have submarines, because countries such as Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia already have them, and even Vietnam, too, will soon have them?

 

Despite erroneous claims that Thailand has never had any submarines, to help justify the purchase, it is a fact that Thailand was actually the first country in the region to have submarines.

 

Four submarines were acquired from Japan’s Mitsubishi Industries back in 1938 and they were all decommissioned in 1951. The remains of one of the subs, Matchanu, is now kept at the Royal Thai Navy museum and serves as a reminder of the past glory of the Thai navy.

 

Like children who like new toys, all military top brass love new weaponry - but for different reasons. It is the job of a responsible government to see to it that the military gets only the weaponry which is necessary for the defence of the country, and not just weapons that only fulfill their wildest dreams for new toys.

 

For a host of reasons, the used German submarines are not worth it. Buying them would be a waste of the taxpayers' money - just one more wasted extravagance to add to a long list of bad decisions made by the military. They already include the army’s recent purchase of an air ship, which still can't fly, the fanciful GT-200 bomb detectors, which can't detect anything, useless Chinese-made tanks and armoured cars, and the navy’s Chakri Naruebet aircraft carrier and the flightless jump jets that were supposed to give it some relevance.

 

 

 

 

[Nervous God]

Hey - you moonlighting? He also knows Thailand has had subs before!

[shygye]

I guess the Thais will use the subs to sink those refugee boats.

[sanddawg1]

Combined with their squadron of blimps should be a formidable force!

[Coss]

"The navy top brass should, after all, be fully aware that a 30-year old submarine is no match for a fast surface ship equipped with anti-submarine weaponry. That is their particular area of professed professionalism."

 

 

and the gulf of Thailand is relatively shallow....

[Palatkik]

My guess is it's related to all the flooding in the south, the small subs should be able to navigate the sois as the air dirigible won't be much use in inclement weather?

[Flashermac]

Bangkok Post

30 Mar 2011

 

 

 

Navy races South to aid victims

 

 

 

The navy has sent the country's only aircraft carrier and two frigates to lead relief efforts in the South as more storms aggravate the flood crisis in many areas.

 

The HTMS Chakri Naruebet left Sattahip naval base in Chon Buri yesterday and is expected to arrive at Koh Tao in the Gulf of Thailand this morning to help evacuate tourists and local people stranded there.

 

More than 1,100 tourists and local residents have been left on the island after bad weather forced ferry operators to suspend services to the mainland.

 

Thousands more foreign and local tourists have also been stuck on nearby Koh Samui because of the heavy storms.

 

Officials said a naval rescue team will use small boats and its two Seahawk helicopters to move the stranded people to the carrier.

 

Two frigates - the HTMS Bang Pakong and HTMS Long Lom - will lead the mission in evacuating tourists from Similan and Surin islands in the Andaman Sea.

 

The Marine Police yesterday rescued six university students and a nine-year-old girl from Koh Klaeb off Chumphon province after they had been stranded on the island for five days.

 

To kick-start relief efforts to the South, the government yesterday approved an allocation of 20 million baht to procure relief supplies for distribution to flood victims.

 

PM's Office Minister Sathit Wongnongtoey said the fund is part of the government's consolidated efforts to help flood-stricken people.

 

He said the Public Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department has been instructed to mobilise water pumps, inflatable rafts and boats to the south.

 

The widespread flooding in the region brought by heavy rain has ravaged 2,763 villages, affecting 310,406 households. The official death toll rose to 11 yesterday.

 

The flood situation is expected to be worse than in 1988 and in November last year, Mr Sathit said.

 

The Fourth Army Region has set up relief centres in five flood-ravaged provinces to speed up relief and rescue operations.

 

Their Majesties the King and the Queen have donated relief supply bags to some 4,000 flood-stricken families in three provinces of Surat Thani, Nakhon Si Thammarat and Phatthalung.

 

Heavy rainfall during the past few days have forced air and rail services to key southern provinces to ground to a halt since early this week.

 

Flash floods have also made many key highways impassable, impeding efforts by government agencies concerned to despatch help to residents in flood-stricken areas.

 

The flood crisis worsened in many provinces after the strong high pressure wedge which caused a sharp drop in temperatures in most parts of the country brought more rain to the South.

 

Chumphon, Surat Thani, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Phatthalung, Songkhla, Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, Ranong, Phangnga, Phuket, Krabi, Trang and Satun have been declared flood crisis zones.

 

People in 22 districts in Nakhon Si Thammarat, Surat Thani, Phatthalung, Trang and Ranong have also been warned of possible mud slides.

 

Yesterday, the situation was reported to be especially bad at Lam Talumphuk in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Pak Phanang district, where strong winds and four-metre-high waves caused damage to 300 homes and forced an evacuation of residents.

 

The storm uprooted trees and damaged power poles causing blackouts in many areas in the provincial seat.

 

In Phipun, officials have also been placed on high alert due to the rapidly rising water volume in the district's two reservoirs - Klong Dindaeng and Katun.

 

In Koh Samui, worried tourists are beginning to express their frustration at a relative lack of information from airline operators.

 

"Nobody is telling us what is happening," said Shyatto Raha, a tourist from India who brought his wife to Koh Samui for a holiday. "It is difficult with Bangkok Airways. We hung out at the airport the entire day yesterday trying to find a flight. It was chaos at the airport."

 

Koh Samui authorities have started moving people to temples on higher grounds as heavy rains caused flash floods that destroyed roads and cut communications.

 

Island mayor Ramnet Chaikwang said soldiers have been asked to deploy military boats to rescue people, especially in the densely populated areas of Chaweng, Lamai and Maenam. He said floods have risen to waist-level, making it difficult to reach and move people out of affected areas.

 

"This flood is the worst we have experienced this decade," Mr Ramnet said. "The most important thing for us now is to evacuate people to safety."

 

 

Just coincidence that the Navy decided to do something now with its aircraft carrier?

 

 

[pasathai1]

if they deducted all the payoffs and "commissions" they would have been a bargain.