Bar Girls-Good/Bad? Email Response - Edited

[Guest]

"Sorry guy, But anyone who took the time to read the length of this post has way too much time on one's hands."

 

I must admit, that I had half an hour too much time on my hands. Am I the only one who likes to relax by reading something not too difficult?!?

 

"because I fail to see who will read this, or who will reply to this silly discussion between 2 people only, discussion that had to stay private IMO !"

 

I will. But actually I read allmost everything. I don't think that this discussion is silly, I found it quite interesting.

 

Maybe the discussion is too unbalanced (and unfair )

 

Best regards

[Guest]

But now the discussion has gone. I was lucky to be able to read the post before the interesting part was deleted.

 

Best regards

[harlequinbkk]

[color:"red"] The email exchange made me think of some of the reasons I have great sympathy for 'les girls'. The great times I've had with them, the poverty I've seen and the things they have to do/endure, their treatment by the locals (more so in Indonesia than in Thailand, I might add), etc. And always, in general, a ready smile and a mai-pen-rai or tidak apa apa attitude. How can you not like that? [/color]

 

MM,

 

- Poverty is relative. Thailand is a developing country, but there are places far worse off. There are people far more deserving of our sympathy.

- What Thai prostitutes do and endure in the practice of their profession, they do by their own choice.

- When a woman I love smiles at me, it is from the heart. When a prostitute smiles at me, she is just doing her job. I prefer genuine expressions of affection over ones that need to be paid for.

 

[color:"red"] One complains about the treatment of the barfront girls, getting in your way and trying to drag you into their bar. Who makes them do that? Anybody think they want to be in your face? Not a chance - if they don't do that they'll be looking for a job elsewhere, as the manager/owner will run them off. And then what? You gotta eat. Baby need new shoes. [/color]

 

- Again, when the Hello Girl grabs you and tries to drag you in the bar, they are doing their job. When the drug dealer sells his product to a drug addict, he is doing his job. When a professional assassin commits murder, he is doing his job. ...... starting to get my drift, MM? If you have to commit an immoral act to 'do your job', perhaps you SHOULD be looking for a job elsewhere.

- Prostitutes need to eat, just like everyone else, but there are other ways of earning money for food then through prostitution. Most women in Thailand are not prostitutes, yet one does not hear of mass starvation in the Kingdom.

 

[color:"red"] They're just trying to make their way in the world, just like the rest of us. Did they screw up by getting in the water trade? Who knows. But there they are. [/color]

 

- I think, on the whole, they have screwed up. What are the long-term prospects for their lives? MM, as someone with considerable experience in the 'water trade', I ask you: would you advise a young woman, one that you really cared about, to become a prostitute?

 

Harlequin

[Guest]

MMan, you wrote that you could consider to marry a BG. Wouldn't you worry that because of a lack of education, you wouldn't be able to discuss with her about many things. (Science, politics, economics, ...)

 

Best regards

[Guest]

"If you have to commit an immoral act to 'do your job', perhaps you SHOULD be looking for a job elsewhere."

 

Since when is it immoral to sell sex?!?!? Do prostitutes hurt the customers?!? Do they force the customers?!?

 

Do you really consider prostitution an immoral job? If yes, this tells everything about you and your attitude towards prostitutes.

 

Best regards

[soongmak]

Naiv,

 

A word of friendly advice: Before you go into a discussion with Harlequin about this, read this thread first:

 

It makes me bloody angry!

 

After you have read the full 12 pages and you still feel you want to battle it out with Harlequin, be my guest

 

Cheers,

 

soongmak

[Guest]

I will read the post. But let me a day or two.

 

Best regards

[harlequinbkk]

[color:"red"] Since when is it immoral to sell sex?!?!? Do prostitutes hurt the customers?!? Do they force the customers?!?

[/color]

 

I was referring to the Hello Girls using force to get you into their bars. It is a common practice, when walking past beer bars, for some of the more brazen girls to grab you by the arm and try to pull you into their bar. I consider such behaviour immoral. It's really not a big deal most of the time, but occassionally it leads to someone getting hurt.

 

Harlequin

 

 

[TokBet]

Mungkin kupu-kupu malam Indonesia tidak sama kupu-kupu malam Thai?

 

I've found the Indonesian 'ladies' much more genuine. Perhaps it's not true, and as you said, people are basically the same, but they SEEM much more genuine to me.

 

A large percentage of them are single mothers. They get married very young, get pregnant almost immediately, and the husband takes off. Very very common.

 

I may be mistaken, but I feel that I can more easily trust an Indonesian hooker who I've known for a long time than a Thai one who I've known for a similar duration.

 

I don't have statistics. These are just observations from living in both Thailand and Indonesia for many years. IMHO

 

In summary, I think that in general, Thai prostitutes are the different from Indonesian ones. Some of their behaviors are different.

[Guest]

HarlequinBkk

 

But you still have not answered the pertinent questions: have you been with bar girls, have you had any as a friend, in a long-term romance. do you know anyone well who has married one, etc?

 

Again I cannot verify but I believe you have no FACTUAL first-hand knowledge on which to base your comments. Pray tell.

 

And don't give me this crap that I'm insulting you personally. The fact of your knowledge base is vitally important to the worthiness of your comments. If I have no credentials, how can I be an engineer, a doctor, an advisor, or whatever?

 

But onto your comments.

 

The girls endure outside their profession, in places that no one knows what they do or who they are: the kampung, the street, where they live, etc. How many bar girl houses/homes have you been to, how many kampungs have you been to and seen the women who have kids and no husband, or offices where locals run the office? If you have not, then you have absolutely NO idea about the endurance of which I speak. I mean endurance for all the girls - NOT just the bar girls or MP girls, but the girls in general. Some as you note work at Robinsons, others at Nana Plaza. If you knew them, you might find that there was not a lot of difference, particularly if you get the girl out of Nana and into her own, Thai, space.

 

As for deserving of sympathy, there is always someone more deserving of sympathy than any given individual - but this is clearly a matter of opinion. But every application of kindness and sympathy helps. Look at the people who devote their lives to this or that cause - saving the Harp Seal, for example, or the seals at Valdez? Should that sympathy and effort be expended elsewhere because it does not agree with my or your morality or values? No, I think not. People are free to choose that for which they care. So be it.

 

And when a girls smiles at me, I think this is good (unless she is laughing at me, which occurs all too frequently). She doesn't have to love me, or even know me. The beauty of the smile is all that matters. Perhaps you think that all the fun that the bar girls might be having at any given time is all contrived and fake. They fake their smiles, fake their laughing, fake their tears. They ordinarily walk aroud glumly, waiting for someone with a big wallet to perk-up their world (this is ridiculous just writing it, but I think Harlequin actually believes this is what happens!)

 

Perhaps they are also faking breathing for our benefit (which certainly some/many do in the heat of passion, but that's a different story).

 

Get real. They're human.

 

So the girls who work in bars are now of a similar ilk to drug dealers and murderers? Who says it is immoral to work in a bar - you? Are you God, who can judge all, and have the lock on morality for all? Judge not, lest ye be judged (think that's from someplace in the Bible).

 

Get off your high horse and come back to the real world.

 

Would I advise a girl to get into the water trade. No. But she has to make her own choice, and I sure as hell woudn't criticize her for her choice because of my moral hangups or values. She has her own values, and she is free to exercise them and act on them as she sees fit. I believe that all over the world this would apply. Do you see it differently - should you be able to prescribe how people behave, as long as they follow some basic tenets of decency, fairness to others, etc? Or would you put the bar girls so out of bounds morally that her work should be banned? Who else shoud be banned or cast out, as you are now Emperor of the WORLD?

 

Perhaps we should, like Mayor Lxx in Manila or PM T___ in Thailand change the face of the city forever on some crusade that 'I'm going to make a difference and change what has been going on here for 100's of years.' Moralistic crusades throughout history are like constipation - they too, shall pass.

 

And on that high note, I'll sign off.