Guest Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 >>>The difference for me is that violence does not permeate every level of Thai society and culture as it does in my home country. <<< apart from a very small globalised urban middle class violence is part of every social subclass in thailand. political violence (every time before elections police asks the known gunmen (!) to please stay in the background - generally they don't listen...). violence in business conflicts, gang violence, etc...the list is just too long. you should just listen to my missus's childhood stories, and see how people upcountry deal with serious conflicts... i have not been in the states yet, so what i can say is just second hand accounts. i have heard that violence is a lot more obvious in in some parts (inner cities) way more extreme than here, but still, i have many friends from the states who have never been affected by it as they do not come from any of those violence prone backgrounds. >>>Come and hang out in LA for a while where a guy will kill you for your car rims! <<< based on what i have read L.A. seems to me a lot more dangerous than bangkok. but do not underestimate bangkok - here you can get killed for staring the wrong guy in the eye, or stepping on the wrong guy's toes depending on the area you are in. >>>You have them in every immigrant and ethnic neighborhood in the USA. <<< well, here those godfathers are the dominating part in most areas of thailand - nothing goes without the godfathers - from the village level ones - to the provincial level guys (putongdaeng from tak province)- to the super godfathers like banharn (ex PM, suphanburi), kamnan po (now in deep shit, estern seabord), kamnan dam (south) any many many more... the only difference between that aspect here and the states is just a very different way how the violence expresses itself, just very different societies. just because violence in the states appears to be according to you so unnecessary, and here based on poverty does not change the fact that thailand in general is a very violent place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 IMO one of the main differecnes between violence in LOS and in the West is that in LOS violence starts usually as the result of something, whereas in the West one often sees violence for the sole purpose of violence. Same for vandalism. Look at how nice the BTS still looks, and compare that to similar mass transit systems in the west. Or soccer hooligans, meeting up just for the pupose of having a good fight. It very unlikely in LOS to just get attacked on the street for no particular purpose. As to how accurate these figures are. They are as accurate as any statistics go. The figures are crimes reported to the police. IMO the murder statsitcs are very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi Oran, I'm not 100% sure on your statement that in LOS violence starts as a result of something. Maybe. I do agree with Fly that Thailand has s violent society. I'm not in on all the stuff that's happening where I live, Koh Samui, but from what does seep through from my wife, there's a lot going on. I guess in each family there must be an uncle who got killed. In Samui, the very popular Thai hang out/disco Santa Fe was closed apparently because there were too many fights/shoot outs between drunken guys/gangs, around closing time. On a regular base people get killed /shot, all over the island, including my neighbourhood. Also for complete random reasons, about a year ago a group of kids stopped in front of a shop and killed the family inside, for a few baht and some smokes. Unfortunately 2 people I know from the local dive industry were murdered as well within a year from each other. A friend got killed because a cab driver hit him at night, and drove over his chest to kill him, that was the cheaper solution for him (the cabdriver). I only live since aq few years, but my view has changed on the Thai society. I still love it, but that outer tranquillity and balanced impression is definately blown to pieces. Stuff can get pretty ugly overhere and the best thing to do is to stay out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 but that outer tranquillity and balanced impression is definately blown to pieces ---------------------------- IMO, a lot of it has to do with the new drug culture, definitely changed a lot of things in the last 10 years, to which you add a reasonably high number of unemployed, or barely employed people, in a society that has seen in a short time span the sort of wild urbanizing that discards values that were in good standing for the most part of the last 150 years. I remember my impression of modern Thailand on my first trip when I just saw that thai people were being co-opted for a post-industrial society of which they had no idea of, I had this image of a whole nation being dragged by the neck like a cow to the slaughter house,ie. flesh for global capitalism. Yes, sometimes, with a little poetic licence, one may think thais are pretending to be thais more than they are thais. Ask a thai what it means to be thai in 2003, and apart from historical cliches (of which one can find easily the contrary, in itself a dualism really thai, actually), I think they will be at loss to tell you. Until maybe 15 years ago, or a bit more, to be thai was to be a (thai) buddhist, but this has flown thru the window. and that's a big loss of identity. IMO and IME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Come and hang out in LA for a while where a guy will kill you for your car rims! Where you have to be on the look out every time you are at a gas station or burger drive-in because that is where the gangs like to ambush their rivals. 2yrs ago the Police chief of LA's grandaughter was murdered with her boyfriend at a burger drive-in because somebody wanted him dead. No offense JJ but LA aint the US...maybe the media magnifies LA problems, or maybe the media just likes dirty laundry, but the US isnt is bad as you paint LA.. And keep in mind statistically...the scumbag factor referred to above... And guaranteeed..its not the nromal middle class Thais that are being violent, just like its not the normal middle class Americans who are being violent..its the trash, the underclass, the lumpen and the scum to whom violence is both a vindication and a lifestyle choice... I watch violent movies..I carry a gun every day and have been doing so for 25+ years...I havent even got into a fight since I was 17.........Most americans are like me (alright not as great but almost)...so are most Thais, Japanese, Chinese, etc... And its not just poverty that begets crime...if so the whole third world, and Thailand would have far more thugs, predators and scumbags.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japio1 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I agree with you. The majority of people in any country are not violent by nature and do not resort to violence for any reason. In general, even in the West, violence is about financial/ power gains and/or the gaining/loss of face. Living here has taught me the following about the Thais and violence: Possesing guns gains face in Thailand( and many other countries). Look around and you will see almost all off-duty policemen, military, politicians and their relatives carrying their gun when they are out. I know a few policemen( from low ranking to colonels) myself and they are telling me that they use it too to settle any disagreements over a seat, a girl, a parking space, etc. etc. Compromising is part of Thai culture, but so is settling a problem by resorting to very severe violence without an attempt to compromise. Part of the reason being that getting caught and convicted depends largely on the size of your wallet. Refusing to pay "baksheesh", "teamoney" etc. gets, especially Thais, in to deep trouble. As a Farang you will normally not have a problem, but be aware of the environment you are in. Thailand is at the very best still a third to second world country where the rules in daily and business life are very different from where most of us were brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_town_hall Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Intersting comments, from my limited experience the Islands seem a lot more lawless / wild than the city.. I sometimes get the feeling there at nightime that I am not safe... I think to live there a long time successfully you would have to be the gray man. STH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 [color:"red"] ever had a look into the neighborhood internet cafes? the godfathers? the local "naklaeng" everybody knows? serious gunculture in this country. in the villages the only houses who do not have guns are the houses who cannot afford one. [/color] I truely agree with you on Thailand has had serious gunculture. Still, in small towns most households own guns. My grandfather was something called "gum nun" (don't know how to compare that to English) told me stories of gunfights on trival things. My brother who is a lawyer and rubs some people in wrong ways at times has to be quite cautiuos for "Bullets are cheap" as my mother says. Just a recent incident happened to my brother during one of his investigating interviews of an accused (on bond, at his house). The accused suddenly got up and grabbed a sword (mind you, a big long SWORD) from the wall and threathened to chop his head and his colleque's off. My brother said the sword's tip was on his neck!!! :: My brother and his colleaque were lucky that the accused's mother was there and he listened to her!!! This is not the first time my brother's life was threatened and he has been really discouraged and decided to set his retirement date, from the government, to be next April. I am from up-country and have seen quite a bit of vilolence and to tell the truth, I feel much safer in the USA. :: Jasmine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 It's all relative, I guess. My Daddy shot a fair number of Germans back in the War and was called a hero. I sometimes, especially VERY recently, think he stopped a mite too soon. I get along fine without a gun here myself, but if Thai men want to blow each other away, I'll not say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 >>>>My Daddy shot a fair number of Germans back in the War and was called a hero. I sometimes, especially VERY recently, think he stopped a mite too soon.<<<< and i think you start getting way out of line here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.