Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Farang are not often the target for serious assualt or murder. Usually we do get a lot of slack. Still quite a number of farang end up victims each year particularly in Pattaya (druggings by BG's, assualt by bar staff etc. and even murder, although mostly by other farang). Difficult to say if a farang is safer in tourist areas or up country. Can't compare as the number of farang out of the tourist areas are too limited. I myself do feel safe outside tourist areas. The advantage of Thailand over the West is that you're unlikly to fall victim to some senseless crimes; unlikely to fall vicitm to opportunistic crimes. Guys just looking for a fight for no reason at all which is often the case in the West. This rarely happens here. Personally I dislike walking lower Sukhumvit as one gets hassled by guys ever 2 or 3 meters wanting to sell you something, taking you to MP's etc. But unsafe? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racha Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 I agree with most of your thoughts you have posted many times before about the violence here in LOS, but have to remind you also about your many posts on not believing statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 One of the key analyses of any murder rate comparison is the "scumbag factor"...ie how many murders are one scumbag killing another..in the US for example and I may be wrong, but approximately 50+% of murders are scumbag murders..ie the killer and the killee are memebrs of the same criminal mileau..... Measureing the scumbag factor is a key to understanding the dangerousness of an area...if the lumpen are ki8lling off the lumpen, then the average gu/girl who is not associated with the lumpen is pretty safe, statistically.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 There is no doubt in my mind that Thailand has a lot of violence, i am not qualified to say if it is A violent society. I only beg to differ between will for violence, or knowing that one's behaviour may lead to violence and crime, and erupting violence, violence that pops out because 2 people are arguing, though they hardly indulge in criminal activities. I think these are 2 different things, one based on criminal, illegal activities and the other, based on social behaviour when a problem comes up between 2 people, a propos of anything except crime. In the taxi thread, i said that IME, the culture of restraint in these cases is still pervasive in LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilofbarnes Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Interesting numbers. Of course, we would have to know what was meant by serious assault etc, and what the estimated rate of reporting and recording of assalt was, to make the comparisons meaningful. But, taking the numbers at face value, it seems that when violence ocurrs in Thaiand, it tends to get very serious, very quickly. In other words, whereas serious fights are not more frequent in Thailand, they do frequently get a lot uglier than the UK or the US. That makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 The problem with statistics are who is doing the classifying, who is collecting the data and who is doing the analysis. So many things get left out or not included in these statistical reports. I would think based off of my experience that Thailand(which means beyond BKK) as a whole is not a violent society. I don't see it in the culture as a whole. I don't see the youth having to go though metal detectors at school or listening to music, watching movies or playing video games that tells them to use a gun to solve their problems. I don't see people being made celebrity and earning money because they used violence to achieve that celebrity. Much violence stems from economic conditions (ie poor people using violent means to secure financial means) but here in the US we have this phenomena of privileged suburban youth forming gangs and committing crimes with weaponry that could hold police at bay because they want things like"respect" or "popularity" not money. I think compared to Thailand US commercial culture glamorizes violence which has the effect of desensitizing our populace to the use and effects of violence. BTW- do you really think that with all of the guns fear and hate circulating in America that those figures are really accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straycat Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Ok, mostly playing Devil's advocate here but still... Says jjsushi: I don't see it in the culture as a whole. I don't see the youth having to go though metal detectors at school... That's perhaps true but high school gang wars IS a problem in Bangkok. You also see quite a bit of graffiti to that effect here (i.e. marking of "territory"). Says jjsushi: ...or listening to music, watching movies or playing video games that tells them to use a gun to solve their problems. I think violence is quite romanticized on TV; much more so than where I'm from, that's for sure. Lots of shows w/ guns and beatings aired every day here. Music I don't know about -- but video gaming is big & it's the same ones played in the West (Counter Strike being one of the most popular, which is a very violent game). Says jjsushi: I don't see people being made celebrity and earning money because they used violence to achieve that celebrity. Muay Thai? (but ok, that's in a controlled form) * * * It's also my impression that business conflicts are solved the violent way here much more often than in the West. I do not have any numbers or experience to back that up though. EDIT: some spelling corrections and minor additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Says Straycat: Ok, mostly playing Devil's advocate here but still... Let me return the favor That's perhaps true but high school gang wars IS a problem in Bangkok. You also see quite a bit of graffiti to that effect here (i.e. marking of "territory").quote] Every big city has gangs ang gang violence. Go to the midwest in the good old USA of A where you will have towns with populations of 10,000 with gangs and violence. gang culture has permeated American life because it is big business. The problem has escalated to where socially and economically well off yout are being recuited into gangs along with the socially disadvanted fodder. I think violence is quite romanticized on TV; much more so than where I'm from, that's for sure. Lots of shows w/ guns and beatings aired every day here. Music I don't know about -- but video gaming is big & it's the same ones played in the West (Counter Strike being one of the most popular, which is a very violent game). American media outlets exports that programming to the rest of the world because sex and violence is big money. Thai youth may play the violent video games now but lets look at it logically. The games were not designed or marketed to them (they can't even afford to purchase the retail version). computer penetration in LOS is way below that of US households. What percentage of Thai youth actually even know what CounterStrike is vs their US counterparts? You want to see a pretty senseless and violent game developed for American youth? Try www.gopostal.com I actually play it when I am feeling low. Muay Thai? (but ok, that's in a controlled form) Try Tonya Harding or Amy Fisher or any ex-Mafia enforcer that has written a book. Instant celebrities that make money off of their violent notoriety. There is even a guy now trying to produce and market trading cards featuring Serial killers. It's also my impression that business conflicts are solved the violent way here much more often than in the West. I do not have any numbers or experience to back that up though. I am sure there is a US executive or 2 that has seen violence in his business. Executive protection is a huge business right now. How do you think that the waste management business, Construction, Las Vegas Casinos and trade unions solved their problems before they supposedly became "legitimate". Vilonce and business will always go hand in hand. I think the origination of a "thug" was the result of a Greek businessman wanting to handle matters in a more physical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 >>>but here in the US we have this phenomena of privileged suburban youth forming gangs and committing crimes with weaponry that could hold police at bay because they want things like"respect" or "popularity" not money.<<< yesterday, mother's day: in my neighborhood, a normal thai neighborhood, we had countless fights, plus one shootout between motorycle racer gangs - one guy in hospital with two bullets in his stomach. we have lots of gangs here - the different vocational school gangs - fights often with machetes and guns. i have seen the aftermath of several of them - hacked off hands and fingers, faces slashed beyond recognition. and yeah, suburban gangs as well, just have a look in some of the cheap suburban mu bans at night - not the nicest areas to walk around in...believe me, i have been there often enough. >>>watching movies or playing video games that tells them to use a gun to solve their problems<<< ever had a look into the neighborhood internet cafes? the godfathers? the local "naklaeng" everybody knows? serious gunculture in this country. in the villages the only houses who do not have guns are the houses who cannot afford one. in my experience thailand is a very violent society. it does rarely touch farang, but nevertheless - if you look behind the curtain you will be amazed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Says flyonzewall: yesterday, mother's day: in my neighborhood, a normal thai neighborhood, we had countless fights, plus one shootout between motorycle racer gangs - one guy in hospital with two bullets in his stomach. we have lots of gangs here - the different vocational school gangs - fights often with machetes and guns. i have seen the aftermath of several of them - hacked off hands and fingers, faces slashed beyond recognition. and yeah, suburban gangs as well, just have a look in some of the cheap suburban mu bans at night - not the nicest areas to walk around in...believe me, i have been there often enough. Countless fights and 1 shootout? Dude kids today in the States don't even know how to fight with their hands unless their is a gun in it. Their are no fist and knife fights. They may start out with some punching but will always invariably end in gunplay. Come and hang out in LA for a while where a guy will kill you for your car rims! Where you have to be on the look out every time you are at a gas station or burger drive-in because that is where the gangs like to ambush their rivals. 2yrs ago the Police chief of LA's grandaughter was murdered with her boyfriend at a burger drive-in because somebody wanted him dead. ever had a look into the neighborhood internet cafes? Ever look at the average American home? Every kid has his own PC. We don't need internet cafes. the godfathers? the local "naklaeng" everybody knows? You have them in every immigrant and ethnic neighborhood in the USA. We had quite a few in the Italian-American town I lived in. serious gunculture in this country. in the villages the only houses who do not have guns are the houses who cannot afford one. I or any kid 8yrs old and up can buy a cheap piece of a Chinese popper from the street dealers for US$20 whats that roughly 800bt? Everyone here can afford that. America does not "HAVE" a serious gun culture it "IS" a serious gun culture. in my experience thailand is a very violent society. it does rarely touch farang, but nevertheless - if you look behind the curtain you will be amazed... Personally, I wouldn't be amazed because I have seen some of what you are talking about. The difference for me is that violence does not permeate every level of Thai society and culture as it does in my home country. We have generations of Americans that do not need to even use violence but they do because they have been "desensitized" to it. You have the children from good families wanting to be "gangstas" because they like the image. America has turned violence into entertainment and commercialized and commoditized it. Thailand has not which is the key difference for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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