JJsushi Posted September 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Says ABCinBK: As for the issue of who has a better chance of getting into a "real relationship", that's another issue. I personally thinking younger guys have more in common with younger girls, and are more attractive in general, but there are those (usually older guys) who will make the opposite arguement. Speaking as someone who is still young and basically at the cusp of being considered "old" by younger people, I disagree with your statement. Younger guys may have more in common with younger girls from a social view of hanging out, having similar interests and fun but when it comes to a dedicated/committed relationship the older guy always seems to win out in my experience. I have seen almost every marriage fail amongst friends and associates where both participants married young at the same age; on the other hand I have seen numerous marriages flourish where the age gap was 5+ years with the male being the oldest. Now keep I mind I am speaking of relationships here in the States. The woman maybe in her 20's and the male in his 30's and they get along just great having children and building a life together. I attribute the successes I have witnessed to the man being more mature, secure and ready to accept the responsibilities of committment. I remember when I was 22-25 in NYC I met many a young lady the same age as me with boyfriends 30-35. I would always think "what do they want with such an old dude?". Well a few years later they all had a couple of kids, loft in the city or house in the suburbs, diamond rings on their fingers, driving a BMW; while I am living in a one room walk up furnished with Ikea, eating take out every night, living paycheck to paycheck and breaking it off with my 15th "serious girlfriend" in 3 years. . .I figured out why they want the older guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 a younger guy will know more about her age group, shared interests etc. --------------------- what shared interests? Disco? OK but what else. The few young guys I have seen with Bgs for LT, seem rather clueless, and i have often heard from the girls later, saying yes they "loved" him first but then the kid was rather boring, homesick, and rarely that he f..d like a rabbit. But other than that, besides the physical side (age, sex but maybe only), what does a young western guy share with a BG from the village. And share that an older guy can't , that is. Watching TV, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 >what shared interests? Disco? OK but what else. Agree. Not many things in common and younger guys tend to be weak in tollerating the differences. May even enhance them. Of course, in an exposure to bgs for a meningful length of time, not only a day or one week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 JJ, "Younger guys may have more in common with younger girls from a social view of hanging out, having similar interests and fun but when it comes to a dedicated/committed relationship the older guy always seems to win out in my experience. " This issue has come up a lot on this board, and it's pretty clear we disagree on this age gap issue. However, on this one post I made and on the last paragraph of the post, I was not only talking about the success rate of these marriages, but of these marriages being "real marriages" where the girl is sincere (really loves the guy vs. having some hidden motive such as money in it's forms of pure money, security, etc.). When I read about women chosing older guys, believing they are less likely to stray, it just plays into that concern. Whether it's right or not, when money is not a concern, most women marry men in their age group. That trend seems apparent when looking at Western developed nations' marriage demographics where the women face less and less financial motivations to marry older men due to financial security or monetary motivations. As for the idea that a 7-10 year age gap (where the man is older) being a positive advantage in the marriage surviving, I don't know. My personal experience shows they don't last, due to the woman seeing more attractive men and that as the couple ages, the man starts to get into the "geezer years" way before she does. This causes there real common interests to fade, and problems start to come about. These observations exist Stateside as well as in LOS, but it's obvious what I've seen in LOS seems to show the age gap making a bigger indication of failure due to false pretense from the economically more inclined partner. As an FYI, there is 9-10 years, depending on the calendar month, between myself and my TG. I'm realistic, and I don't consider it an advantage at all. It may not be a disadvantage but if the gap got bigger and bigger, it would be a major disadvantage in everything but possibly money....even then, older guys don't always have money. Those with a history of failed marriages often don't. What you see in NYC may simply be a microcosm of those older guys who did come out ahead, marrying those younger women willing to sacrific some attraction for other gains, including money and abatement of insecurities concerning their husband/boyfriends running off. One last thought....are older guys really always more willing to committ, more mature, and more serious? Perhaps they are simply more desperate and so know they have to committ more. And after they get lucky and hook a younger "trophy wife", wouldn't they be more inclined to meet her demands and keep her satisfied? I've seen this in action....some of these guy's insecurities in having this much more attractive/young wife is not, in my view, healthy for a real substantive marriage. As a guy who still passes for a 20ish man (though not as much as 3 years back), I might want to convince myself I'm not going to lose my edge, but I am. American women don't show as much interest anymore (well, mainly Asian Americans, as that's who I am and who I appeal most to). I don't look as attractive anymore. (The only exception is when they figure out you have money, like from your job or where you sit on the plane, bt who wants that type of woman?) That's life. You get old, and you die. Why try to make something attractive when it's not. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted September 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Says ABCinBK: JJ, As for the idea that a 7-10 year age gap (where the man is older) being a positive advantage in the marriage surviving, I don't know. My personal experience shows they don't last, due to the woman seeing more attractive men and that as the couple ages, the man starts to get into the "geezer years" way before she does. This causes there real common interests to fade, and problems start to come about. That is interesting because from my experience I see that past 30 the womans' market value seriously goes on a decline because she cannot compete physically with younger women, inversely I see a mans' market value go up considerably. I also see more guys between the 30-45 age bracket meeting and attracting women from the 25-45 range. I rarely see an older woman run off with a younger man. I usually see the older man run off with the younger woman. I was not only talking about the success rate of these marriages, but of these marriages being "real marriages" where the girl is sincere (really loves the guy vs. having some hidden motive such as money in it's forms of pure money, security, etc.). . . Whether it's right or not, when money is not a concern, most women marry men in their age group. That trend seems apparent when looking at Western developed nations' marriage demographics where the women face less and less financial motivations to marry older men due to financial security or monetary motivations. My understanding is that a "real marriage" is not based purely on love rather an exchange or even compromise on fulfilling the other partners wants and needs. I love every woman I am with but marriage is alltogether another ball of wax. Marriage is the ultimate social contract you can make with another individual. You seem to confuse marriage with the romantic notion of love. The two are fundamentally different in my opinion. A woman can love a man with all of her heart but if he is a slap happy kind of a guy and beats her for no reason I am sure that she will void that marriage for self preservation reasons, although she still loves him. A woman and man can love each other in the purest form but if the man does not want to have children and the woman does what would be the point of her marrying him? Regarding women marrying men at their age level. Most women probably marry men in their age group in the States because our socialization is structured along age. Our laws dictate where you can and cannot go and do based on your age. We have a culture that discriminates or is segmented based on age. Take for example dance clubs there are under 18, under 21, 25 and older dance clubs throughout the USA. I notice in the Hispanic community they have very loose restrictions on age and socialization. You can go to any Hispanic club and see middle aged men and women dancing and partying with people half their age. You will also see plenty of older men with younger women at their tables and their not hookers. You will not see that in your average dance club in mainstream America because mainstream America does not think it is appropriate to mix the ages in such a fashion. I think that no matter how much a woman makes she is going to go with security which will be in the form of stability(money, maturity, companionship, etc). A guy with a certain level of financial means and who can be a good mate and provider and for her and her children is what she desires and that guy will usually be older than her. Let's not get extreme and pair a 25 year old woman with a 65 year old guy. My arguments are based more along a 5-10 year age gap per my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 JJ, Let's make sure you know I am talking mainly about Western women here, and especially those in the USA. I was thinking more in terms of women in their 20's married to men in their 30's and 40's on up. When you are dealing with 7-10 years, between a 20 someting and a mid/late 30 something, there is often a very real difference in outlook. One is still partying/going out, the other is starting to slow down. You have a good point though. Women do lose ability to attract partners as they past 30, in general. Men don't really increase in attractiveness though....some of them simply increase in savings and income. It is their pocketbook that is doing the attracting, as their looks start to fail them in this area. Older women do sometimes run off with younger men, but it is not the norm as you've pointed out. I'm not confusing marriage with romantic love. I am of the view that marriage without romantic love, even with all the other great things, leaves something unmet. It's like eating an all meat diet and missing the filling nature of bread/rice/pasta; or eating all vegetables for someone that loves steak. Maybe it is a Western or developed country attitude (which I think is most prevalent in the USA), but there is a trend that as countries' populations start to increase in living standards, there seems to be a shift away from economically sanctioned unions towards ones based on mutual attraction. As this happens, I don't think it's a coincidence that you see the age gap in marriages (among developed and developing nations) start to decrease. In the end, a woman marries an older man for some variation of money (call it security, stability, or whatever euphemism the occasion warrants), but only because she needs to. When that need starts to dissipate, so does the age gap. >A woman can love a man with all of her heart but if he is a >slap happy kind of a guy and beats her for no reason I am >sure that she will void that marriage for self preservation >reasons, although she still loves him. How exactly does the above statement relate to the age gap? Old and young men can be just as abusive. >A woman and man can love each other in the purest form >but if the man does not want to have children and the >woman does what would be the point of her marrying him? Women give up things for men they love, and vice versa. She might marry him because she actually loves him and not what he has to offer her. Marriage certainly is utilitarian for many, including the women that marry men for their wealth/security/stability/etc., but there are actually those that marry for love. Then many may fall somewhere in between, motivation wise. >Regarding women marrying men at their age level. Most >women probably marry men in their age group in the States >because our socialization is structured along age. Our laws >dictate where you can and cannot go and do based on your >age. We have a culture that discriminates or is segmented >based on age. Take for example dance clubs there are >under 18, under 21, 25 and older dance clubs throughout >the USA. Perhaps it is the other way around. Can it be that our social structures State-side actually reflect the fact that people here chose to date those closer in age to them, and the clubs simply play along this trend? How does this explain why you go to Thai discos (real Thai discos, not Nana or some freelancer hangout), and the non-BG Thai women are mostly dancing with Thai men their own age? It's true that multi-generational marriages do occur in Thailand, but when you see most Thais with their own age/kind, it reflects (I believe) on the fact that most people ultimately want someone they can relate to and can relate to them...age makes a big difference here. >I notice in the Hispanic community they have very loose >restrictions on age and socialization. You can go to any >Hispanic club and see middle aged men and women dancing >and partying with people half their age. You will also see >plenty of older men with younger women at their tables and >their not hookers. You will not see that in your average >dance club in mainstream America because mainstream >America does not think it is appropriate to mix the ages in >such a fashion. That may be true. I've got Spanish friends/tenants. Even in Spanish culture, most people actually marry within their own age brackets, though like Thai culture, multi-generation marriages/couples are more prevalent. Nonetheless, you bring up a good point again, which is that Spanish culture and possibly other cultures aren't as compliant with a reduced age gap as the anglo-saxon West and those countries that are/have/will follow this cultural path as their economies develop. >I think that no matter how much a woman makes she is >going to go with security which will be in the form of stability >(money, maturity, companionship, etc). A guy with a certain >level of financial means and who can be a good mate and >provider and for her and her children is what she desires >and that guy will usually be older than her. I don't agree with that. The above statement you make is certainly not a sure thing. ERA has gone completely against that and many Western women abide by it heavily. Most women are somewhere between our 2 views though. And as I think I mentioned before, I don't think many of the women, especially the ones with their own financials means, are really chosing older men for their wealth alone or even as a the primate motivator. Some are simply on to the fact that these older men are more willing to give more, knowing they have less options elsewhere. If someone is insecure, or rightfully fearful that they might be cheated on by their future husband, the best way to reduce this possibility is to find an older, uglier, or less desireable mate. Age leads to death, health problems, and a reduction in attractiveness generally speaking. Marrying an older man means marrying one with, some women may think, less chances of finding another wife. It is a logical deduction, though as you've mentioned, the man may accumulate more wealth and use it to attract a financially motivated replacement for his wife. >Let's not get extreme and pair a 25 year old woman with a >65 year old guy. My arguments are based more along a 5->10 year age gap per my experiences. If you are pushing towards the 5-7 year gap, I agree with you that it happens a lot. First, the double standard in the USA makes it hard for a woman to have a younger husband, and there was a time when a 10 year gap was normal in this country. A result of that is that marriages with a 2-5 year gap is normal. However, when you push towards the 7-10 gap you originally mentioned, it becomes more about money and finding someone the woman thinks is less likely to leave her. Ironically, as you mentioned, that isn't always the way it turns out, simply because the man can use his money to find another woman that is also either financially inclined or of the opinion he is more "stable" than a younger man. But nowhere in here do I believe the woman actually finds gray hairs, wrinkles, or aging attractive of themselves....she finds them attractive only because they signal wealth, stability (less likely to leave, as she thinks), and security (a nice way to say she wants to ensure she is going to get money from him regularly). We aren't that far apart on the 7 years being the limit. And I agree there are lots of men/women who accept money as part of the bargain in a marriage. I just don't, and at least in concept, I am thinking most Westerners don't either....in practice, it's a mixed bag like I've mentioned above 1-2 times. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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