A bargirl's standing in the village

[think_too_mut]

>For three months she spent 16 hours a day on her back, doing as many as 20 short times. When the 90 day veisa expired she came back home for a month and then repeated the trip two more times. She said she became totally numb to feeling a man inside her.

 

 

This is how it works with Singapore.

 

An organizer would open an account, put 20K baht into it and supply airline ticket.

 

Upon arrival, she gets a 2 weeks visa.

 

The organizer gets all the money that comes from first 80 customers, the girl does not talk money with them.

 

The girls hope to make some money last 3-5 days and it would be around 5-6K baht a pop.

 

As the organizer "organizes" everything, including the "work bench", she can't be in debt after the stint. May make less money than she had hoped but no debt.

 

As some others, I tend to be a bit suspicious about your story.

[..]

Personally knowing both the gril & DThomass, I can add some things. I believe that the debt is not only what father owed (how he owns it is inconsequential), but also what spent on new house, pickup, gold, etc. The "debt" is the perceived family obligation she has, not an actual/fixed $$ amount. Also remember that she is older, so the costs may have been more as the pimp in Switzerland may have argued that she could not be sold for as much.

 

A very sad story and one I also did not know details about until I saw BKKGrey's posts.

 

Cheers,

SD

[MaiLuk]

Agree that 'how' dad incurred the debt no longer matters. The debt to the snake or whatever you call him has to be paid.

 

I don't follow the perceived family debt, if they have the house and the truck already then how is this a debt of the girl to her family?

 

Gripping story hope he is willing to post more.

[..]

"Again, i will attract wrath on me, but i think for many thais at village level, without still seeing it a great, smart life choice, the causes of entering the trade are blatant for all to see, and moreover, useful to bring cash into impoverished families. To help the family is no shame in itself. helps a bit there, especially if the girl's occupation and income are not flaunted all over the village."

 

Not wrath, but pity. Are you really that naive to think these people are impoverished? Poverty is defined by not having the basic human needs: food, clothings, shelter. I have never had a bar girl tell me that they had any problem with those and any trip to Issan will show that folks do have the basics covered.

 

What they want are luxury items. This is what makes it disgusting to sell or force daughters into the P4P trade. Daddy and brothers are too lazy to do anything, but want a new motocy and pickup and gold and a big house. They do not NEED those things, just want. And those THINGS are worth more than their own children/siblings. Where did the people that do this get their warped sense of values? Advertising/marketing/Western media? Maybe, prolly, dunno.

 

Now I could rationalize -- not agree, but understand why -- packing daughter off the the P4P scene if the choice was starvation or sleeping outside (of course that brings on condemnations of gummint lack of social safety net but not here). But not for the acquisition of luxury items -- no excuse whatsoever for that.

 

Regards,

SD

[..]

I am referring to stuff the was bought with her money. Like the house that is not finished or the payments on the truck. Great pressure on her to get the money to finish it. By perceived obligation, I mean what the family think "she owes them" for being their daughter.

 

DT did not mention that she has a lovely 12 year old daughter. Sad to think that the cycle may be perpetuated. But then again, since the woman is divorced, she may be able to stop anyone from forcing her daughter to go. Hard to say and a no win situation for all involved.

 

Thanks for sharing it DT and I hope that I have not stepped over any boundries adding to it. I feel a bit guilty since I did introduce her to you...

 

Cheers,

SD

[pattaya127]

Marriage to a TG might be a real difficulty for them.

---------------------------------

Here, i disagree totally. Just like many Bgs are still good for their TBF, many Bbs are still good for their TGF.

 

besides, you are telling us about Bgs looking down on Bb, which shows one can always find someone to put down, it does not mean that one's status is that much better than them (we also have the upscale karaokes girls looking down at the gogos who are looking down at Bgs who are.... All this just reminds me of crabs tied in a basket clawing each other).

 

 

Thai society has strong undercurrents of social prejudice, and many codes in their social behaviour, still, there is still a lot of free will, and and one-mindedness on the part of individuals to do as they see fit within these parameters. That's why some girls still work as maids and others work in a bar or free-lance, or go back from bar to day work, or do it while they need to pay a debt and then leave the scene. the combinations are many, truly.

[pattaya127]

Poverty is defined by not having the basic human needs:

-----------------------

No. That's misery (below poverty). I have had arguments here with some who claim there is immense misery in parts the countryside (well, one: FlyW I think is adamant on this), and i, maybe out of ignorance, always felt that people were poor, but not miserable, which means starving, begging, raggedy, at village level.

 

One thing i agree with FlyW for sure is that the indebtment level of farmers can be daunting, and not a slim occurence.

 

First time I hear Issan is an affluent province. I don't know how much you've been traveling outside of the cities there, and what your certitudes are based on. Not every girl working in the trade was forced by her parents, and maybe you know the right joints for non-child bearing BGs, but there are still a lot out there who went P4P because of that extra mouth.

 

BTW, that's not naive. Thailand is a 3rd world country still, period.

[..]

"and i, maybe out of ignorance, always felt that people were poor, but not miserable, which means starving, begging, raggedy, at village level."

 

So we are agreeing here then, n'est pas? I can understand Flys impression, but it is skewed by his work. If one were working in the ghetto of Detroit or in Applachia, one would have the same impression of the States.

 

I never said affluent. I implied self-sufficient. You keep changing words and adding catagories to suit your argument. Stop it !

 

When the phrase "below poverty level" is used in the States (where I am from and you live) it means lack of funds for basic human needs -- that is the "poverty level." It is a step below poor. Poor means that you are not much use to marketing people.

 

The farmer debt is incurred from the quest for luxury items that are unneeded (and from pesticides that are innefective). I read in The Nation some time ago the the "loan on land" gummint scheme money went 90+% (!!!) to purchase mobile phones (insert Toxin comment here).

 

And no economist believes that Thailand is a third world country. I believe the term used is developing country. Third world countries cannot self-maintain their standard of living, cannot participate in the international political scene and do not have any industry. Does not describe Thailand at all. Cambodia/Laos/Burma/Rwanda/Sudan/etc., yes.

 

No magic places for finding P4P grils without kids. Just long conversations with some of the grils from the usual places (heck 90+% of my BFs I end up going home alone -- I like people and "social anthropology"). As far as going on P4P for "that extra mouth," listen to the stories more. If they changed their spending habits (dropping unnecessary spending on unimportant but fun and status-y things and telling lazy brothers to work) they would have the money. It is a choice for *most* in the farang scene, with the real goal of finding a farang BF and being set for life. It doesn't make them bad people, just questionable decision makers. I cannot talk to the local scene, I do not know.

 

How to fix the mentality that drives one to make bad decisions in the quest for status items? No idea. It is a problem worldwide!

 

Cheers,

SD

[Guest]

>>I hope you can elaborate on how it came to be that Dad paid 300,000 baht to get her to switzerland. Why would dad pay anything to get her there? Shouldn't the guys running the operation pay Dad? <<

 

Usually the actual debt cost in the swiss trade is around 150,000 for the trip. This sum is about the bare minimum as the agency also ensures that the family have borrowed money off them in advance on their daughters earnings. They make out that it is going to be no effort at all for the girl to earn the money to pay it back. Of course with the majority of these familys it doesn't take much effort for them to accept the loan.

 

It sounds like this girl went on a 3 month "brothel" contract. This is actually pretty unusual as the girls usually go through an agency based in Lausanne that gets them in on Dancers Visas.

 

They have set periods for working in Places and in a lot of cases after they have fulfilled the initial contracts they find that they haven't made enough to pay off how much they are in debt for. Then comes the brothel contract, they then work in exactly the way DT describes in his post.

 

It wouldn't be any difficulty at all for her to still be in debt for 300k. It probably means the old man took an advance of about 200k which isn't the highest Ive heard by any means.

[Guest]

>>Poverty is defined by not having the basic human needs: food, clothings, shelter. I have never had a bar girl tell me that they had any problem with those and any trip to Issan will show that folks do have the basics covered. <<

 

But certainly not all. Every night Itv picks a certain family or person upcountry that don't have anything at all. Requests are put out for contributions. Kids with stomachs swollen through malnutrition etc.

 

Its interesting that in the vast majority of the cases the younger members of the family have deserted the elders leaving them to look after their own offspring.

 

I can honestly say that the more time I spend upcountry the overwhelming impression ends up being depair. It was a lot different before the crash. There was plenty of construction work etc. Now for most of these people there is nothing at all for them to see as a hopeful future.