Bangkok may become arts capital of Asia

[Guest]

as far as i know 50% is the standard in a proper gallery.

and it is fair.

a proper gallery does not just hang the work of the artist, and wait for somebody coming by to buy.

a gallerist has a lot of legwork to do. it often takes years to build up an artist taken under contract, and a gallery cannot have too many artists under contract as they won't then be able anymore to properly promote each one.

gallerists have to constantly offer the works, have to know when certain groupexhibitions are happening where the work of an particular artist fits in, has to submit works of an artist to grants, competitions and art festivals. a gallerist has to know important collectors and has to have a good reputation.

in short - all the kind of work an artist can hardly do himself if one still wants to be creative.

 

some idea like this here will not work for any artist with real aspirations, can maybe even be counterproductive as it can have the effect on collectors that it somehow "cheapens" the artist and his work.

especially as it is an initiative of the culture ministry, a body which has a few days ago excelled by creating a huge fuss over a seminaked photo on the cover of a magazine, which was seen as "un-thai".

 

a thai artist will have to access the international market (if one isn't just a happy nature and temple painter). there are no important collectors here in thailand, and i do not know of any internationally connected gallery (other than the chula's own, and that one is run mafia style).

 

this idea here presented makes maybe nice news for the culture ministry, but it will not be taken serious in any way by the market which any aspiring artist has to access to survive financially on the long run.

[kamui]

Hi Fly,

 

you are very right about what you said about the work of galleries.

 

Fly wrote

a thai artist will have to access the international market (if one isn't just a happy nature and temple painter). there are no important collectors here in thailand, and i do not know of any internationally connected gallery (other than the chula's own, and that one is run mafia style).

 

This again proves that the idea of becoming a "Culture Capital" is, if not hypocrite, but a complete overestimation. I presume this does apply to not only to visual arts, but for music, ballet... as well.

 

Before thinking of becoming a global player, or even a player in SE Asia Thailand needs to develop an own working art scene.

Usually this is built on several columns.

- art schools (one is not enough since usually every art school prefers a certain kind of art and style, and they need foreign artist as teachers)

- artists (of course ::, some of them need become teachers at art schools. Art cannot be taught by theorists)

- art galleries (the best galleries need to have an unique profile and program and need to deal not only with Thai art to earn enough money to work internationally with Thai artists)

- Contemporary art museums/ Curators

- Critics/ magazines

- Collectors

- Art historians/researchers

 

If there are no contemporary art museum(s), no international galleries, no collectors for contemporary art the effort to become a capital for arts LOS will need at least one generation. For example to become a collector you need money, education (it must not be school, but a kind of sense for art and quality, a real good knowledge of art history, of the market e.g.).

 

The idea of an art market is not bad, maybe there are some interesting works to find, since there are no good galleries in BKK. It is better than nothing, but of course this will only be an air bubble.

 

The comments of the artists reveal that they seem to have no experience in the art market. Anyway, I meet many artists in Germany which are very uneducated in how the market works as well, but the best ones (need to) learn very fast.

[MrX]

Really quite amazing to me the thoughtful and considerate posts emerging in this thread.

 

I started it with a scoff at a newspaper article and very little written here suggests that gesture was misplaced but none of you address Thai nature (which may not exist) as a root cause

 

I mean isn't a bit surprizing that a country which has enjoyed relatively stable nationhood for quite a while really is so poor in homegrown artists?

 

I myself miss the traits of irony, BS detecting and myth- debunking most in my thai friends and wonder if artists can grow in such a depleted soil.

 

This is not to say that art isn't itself mostly about myth-making, just that to have the courage of your own myths seems a necessary, if not sufficient , starting point for 'art"......official ones simply will not do

[Guest]

>>>I myself miss the traits of irony, BS detecting and myth- debunking most in my thai friends and wonder if artists can grow in such a depleted soil<<<

 

my thai mates here have a very keen sense of sarcasm, but i have to admit that they are not part of the "educated thai world".

just yesterday we chatted about the bloke we just brought to the hospital who found out that in a battle between his teeth and the boardwalk teeth will lose.

one of 'em just threw in that it must have been his own fault as the government declared that thai people are not supposed to go out after dark, that this would be un-thai.

 

 

 

>>>but none of you address Thai nature (which may not exist) as a root cause<<<

 

lots of people do use those speculations on thai nature as a reason. maybe i am wearing some rose colored glasses here, but i do feel that those discussions do most of the time end up in blatant generalisations, often bordering on racism. and, most important, i do see no "thai nature", just the same mulitude of people such as anywhere else.

 

personally i see the biggest problem that, as kamui has posted, the biggest problem simply is that there is no infrastructure existing to nurture and market talent. creativity i see lots here.

[kamui]

rompandadam said:

 

I mean isn't a bit surprising that a country which has enjoyed relatively stable nationhood for quite a while really is so poor in homegrown artists?

 

I myself miss the traits of irony, BS detecting and myth- debunking most in my Thai friends and wonder if artists can grow in such a depleted soil.

 

This is not to say that art isn't itself mostly about myth-making, just that to have the courage of your own myths seems a necessary, if not sufficient , starting point for 'art"......official ones simply will not do

 

 

Good question.

 

The lack of structures must have a cause in the social and cultural settings of the current Thai society and of course must be found in Thai history. Unfortunately I don't know enough about all of this components.

 

In general you cannot blame the historical catastrophes like in Cambodia or Vietnam for the lack of quality contemporary arts. And if you look at other Asian countries you see that the tradition of producing art in various groups and building art collections by the upper classes is not rare, for example in China or Japan.

But the concept of public collections and museums is a western concept. The idea of "Fine Arts" and being an Avantgarde artist is western as well.

 

The question is when Thailand was exposed to this western concepts and why Thailand did not take them over like other Asian countries did to an certain extent. In Japan it was introduced in 19th century in other places like Shanghai or Hongkong it was introduced before WWII as far as I know.

 

Looking at art from China or Taiwan, which means from societies which only recently gave more freedom to arts, you see a lot of art commenting their own society. Simultaneously the art scenes in this countries (Japan as well) are caught in an ongoing struggle between their own traditions and western thoughts and techniques, which resulted in a different kind of modern art compared to the west.

 

It seems that the modern idea of art never really settled in Thai society, therefore the lack of adequate structures. But I wonder why it didn't happen?

Is it because that the general structures of the society are still premodern?

Is it because being well educated and showing personal culture through his own abilities in arts and/or art collecting is not valued at all? This for example has a very long tradtion in China and Japan.

 

Since Thai society is caught in an ongoing change since some decades I wonder if there any interesting art can be found which comments on this or tries to find its own way between tradition and present.

[MrX]

 

 

"my thai mates here have a very keen sense of sarcasm, but i have to admit that they are not part of the "educated thai world".

just yesterday we chatted about the bloke we just brought to the hospital who found out that in a battle between his teeth and the boardwalk teeth will lose.

one of 'em just threw in that it must have been his own fault as the government declared that thai people are not supposed to go out after dark, that this would be un-thai."

 

I want you to come out of your Ken Loach bunker and fight like a man!

[kamui]

rompandadam said:

 

I mean isn't a bit surprising that a country which has enjoyed relatively stable nationhood for quite a while really is so poor in homegrown artists?

 

I myself miss the traits of irony, BS detecting and myth- debunking most in my Thai friends and wonder if artists can grow in such a depleted soil.

 

This is not to say that art isn't itself mostly about myth-making, just that to have the courage of your own myths seems a necessary, if not sufficient , starting point for 'art"......official ones simply will not do

 

 

Good question.

 

The lack of structures must have a cause in the social and cultural settings of the current Thai society and of course must be found in Thai history. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this.

 

As rompandadam already said, Thailand had a much more peaceful history than it's neigbors in the last two centuries.

Therefore nobody can blame historical catastrophes like it happened in Cambodia or Vietnam for the lack of quality contemporary arts.

 

But one historical point comes into my mind. Thailand does not seem to have a hundreds of years long tradition of producing art in various, often competitive, groups and a upper class defining itself not only through power and money but through culture as well (for example in setting up private art collections), like in China or Japan. Otherwise there should be private collections with trad. Thai art on show in BKK or other places, but I only know Jim Thompson's House. (Correct me if I am wrong).

 

Furthermore the concept of public collections and museums is a western concept as well as the idea of "Fine Arts" and being an Avantgarde artist. The idea of Fine Arts was in introduced in Japan in the 19th century, in other places like Shanghai or Hongkong it was introduced before WWII as far as I know.

 

I don't know when Thailand was exposed the western art concepts, but it seems to me that the modern idea of art never really settled in Thai society, therefore the lack of adequate structures. But I wonder why it didn't happen?

 

Is it because that the general structures of the society are still premodern?

Is it because being well educated and showing personal culture through his own abilities in arts and/or art collecting is not valued like in China or Japan? Besides that the education system in East Asian coutries is way better since decades. In Japan for example more than 90% of the kids finish high school, compared to Thailand where rural Thais seem to have only basic education of a few years.

Probably there are more reasons I am not aware of...

 

Looking at art from China or Taiwan, which means from societies which only recently gave more freedom to arts, you see a lot of art commenting their own society. Simultaneously the art scenes in this countries (Japan as well) are caught in an ongoing struggle between their own traditions and western thoughts and techniques, which resulted in a different kind of modern art compared to the west.

 

Since Thai society is caught in an ongoing change since some decades I wonder if there any interesting art can be found which comments on this or tries to find its own way between tradition and present.

[kamui]

By the way I had a look at Thai art collections introduced at Rama Art.

 

The art shown there in private collections sometimes crosses the border to Kitsch, especially the collection of Mr. T. ::

Thai art in public collections is only slightly better. The most convincing examples are in the Thoshiba collection IMHO.

 

Many paintings I have seen on the web describe a kind of idyllic rural Thailand and its beauty. This is 70 years behind Western trends.

 

Of course this does not mean that there is no good Thai art, but speaks about of the taste of the collectors who expose their collection in public. And if other Thai take these collections as example for their own.....

[Pom Michael]

Here is an art exhibition that is usually pretty exciting for a change.

 

ART THESIS EXHIBITION 33rd

by the Graduating Class of the Faculty of Painting Sculpture and Graphic Arts

Silpakorn University Academic Year 2003

March 8 - 17, 2004

 

Cheers!

[Nervous_Dog]

Actually the usual is 40%, I used to own a gallery a long time ago, some places will go as low as 20%.

 

For resales the norm is 20%.

 

JB