about using the word racism...

[pattaya127]

....as read in the 5 baht/dble pricing threads:

 

I would not contest so much if you guys used xenophobia instead of racism. Of the very minor type as concerns 5 bahts scams and possibly major if swindling the tourist. Though it would still need to be qualified, as what we talk about here is technical swindling (what the market can bear) more than being shamed because of one's race.

 

Still:

 

SEAsia has had to deal with a lot of racism on the part of western powers for centuries, there is a remnant of deep or historical resentment that can/may be felt when a farang deals with officialdom in every country there, for example.

 

Even Thailand, the uncolonized has seen its history shaped by fending off the powerplay of british and french empires, often giving land for peace. I think if we talk racism and xenophobia, we have to talk history of that racism/xenophobia, as it is a deep feeling akin to hatred, implies demeaning of the object of racism, and a pattern of abuse and discrimination marking unmistakably the life/psyche of the discriminated as a minority (jews in Europe, blacks in USA, hilltribes in Thailand, etc.....), which farangs are in Thailand.

 

Maybe some of you imply there can be racism in dble pricing and not other situations, but I disagree with that. racism is across the board between ethnies, religions, races. It would be hard to feel welcome more than a 2 or 4 weeks cash spending vacation, in that case, whereas I gather LOS farang residents are rather happy to have found this country to live in.

[Guest]

i have difficulties to understand what you are trying to say here. is it what you say that it is OK that thailand has certain institutional racist policies because the east has suffered in the past a lot from european racism?

 

or do you say that there is no institutional racism in thailand, that it is a case where the word 'racism' is abused and it should be called 'swindling'?

 

i am sorry, but there is more than a lot of what i would call blatant racism here in thailand. we westerners may not be in the worst situation due to our countries economical power, but the situation of ethnic minorities here in the "land of smile" is dire, and have been for a very long time.

thailand has a longstanding policy of what is considered "thai", and that unfortunately excludes a lot of the different thai and non-thai minorities in this country, as it basically only means central thai culture.

the now very nationalistic government renewed that drive for "thainess" which does alarm many of those minorities (one very obvious result are the problems in the south).

 

what is, IMHO and experience, less than in many other places is individual racism and racial hatred. but that does not count for institutionalised racism.

 

and, recent policy changes in regards of every foreigner here do not improve the situation concerning institutionalised racism. also, constant brainwashing by the government, and onesided misreporting by the medias, have also unfortunately increased incidents of individual racism.

[cardinalblue]

P127,

 

I don't understand why you are so sensitive about Thais or los being called a "racist" country. Heck, even their gov policies support it.

 

And yes many falangs who here enjoy LOS for a number of various reasons. Each of us is different and living here for different reasons.

 

BUt just because we live here and enjoy it more than other parts or places in the world, it doesn't exempt LOS or Thais from being criticized on certain things.

 

Racism is just one thing. Doesn't one ever get tired of hearing "a table for two falangs" - spoken in thai of course. Why do they need to spell out the difference? Are not falangs or japanese just like other people? LOS seems to be stuck in the 1950's socially. In LOS, Racism is done both intentionally and ignorant-wise, and it is done against all other races and other non-thai ethnic groups.

 

Thailand is a enjoyable country to live for many reasons but it has a list of problems and issues to deal with.

 

Here is my short list:

 

environmental issues

workplace safety

labor law and relations

variety of discriminatory practices

constitutional democracy

law and due process

formal education

 

It doesn't mean that these negatives outweigh the positives of living here. Yet, it is important for issues to be raised and discussed and hopefully change/evolve in positive ways....

 

Cardinalblue

[thai3]

 

Xenophobia means fear of foriengers, I don't think we are overcharged beacuse they fear us.I can think of an example of a travel agent in the UK (thai run) who will quote different prices to falangs and thai's. As this is based on race I call that racist, much as I hate that overused word-peter

[elef]

Hi Peter,

 

Singapore Airlines and Thai Airways have asian discounts (as ethníc ones are no-no) so there exist different prices. TG doesn't give this discount on the cheapest tickets any more.

 

If you travel with a thai or other asian at least one way you're also entitled to get the same discount.

 

elef

[itsmedave]

On a recent trip near HUa Hin, Thai's were charged 5 baht to enter a national park, while foreigners (even Thai taxpaying foriegeners with a work permit, were charged 200 baht.

 

But just this whole "Falang" bit is starting to piss me off. In taxi's around the world, customers are addressed as "Sir" regardless of nationality, but in Thailand, we are falang. Falang = you don't belong here and are different from US

 

It's starting to really annoy me. I've been many places around the wrold but haven't had children pointing at me on the street calling out "foreigner, foreigner" as I have here.

 

 

The word falang has been outlawed in my house, and my wife receives a dirty look from me when she uses it.

[pattaya127]

it doesn't exempt LOS or Thais from being criticized on certain things.

------------------------------

This is not what the topic is about.

 

It's about the roots of possible racism towards foreigners, and the meaning of the word. To me, a lot of what you guys talk about has to do with prejudices, not racism. It's only because I have been sensitized to this word as a pattern of demeaning and discriminating towards one race or religion, with results in every aspect of their lives. Racism that does not victimize you and follow you as your shadow, I call prejudice. I hope it's ok to differ with you

 

 

BTW, I agree with flyW that, just like any damned country in the world, there is racism in Thailand. Farangs are so lucky to deal with the tiniest part of it.

As for the new immigration rules, since they are new, it must be a new racism and it would be interesting to hear where this one sprang about from.

[liquidflux]

The double pricing that goes on in Thailand, and pretty much all of asia for that matter, is most definately racist. Do you honestly believe that history was a factor when they decided to set 2 prices? I doubt many of the people running dual prices even have a clue about Thai history. They do it because its a way for them to make a few extra baht off the lowly farangs, and they can get away with it. I wasnt part of the British for French forces trying to colonize them, why should I have to pay the price? Similar to relatives of the slaves here in the US who think they should get paid for a period of time that they were never a part of.

[pattaya127]

Do you honestly believe that history was a factor when they decided to set 2 prices?

---------------------------------

Good point. Yes and No. There is definitely a stance about the white guy from officialdom in asian countries. That still does not explain why asian tourists from say, China, add a few more, pay the stiff price.

I am certainly finding viable the idea that if probelms arise between a thai and a

farang", ie. THE farang, the word can become slurred racially.

 

 

 

I doubt many of the people running dual prices even have a clue about Thai history

----------------------------------

if a thai calls you racist for saying that, I agree with him he's got a point. ::

BTW, TAT subcontracts many of its market studies. i would not be surprised if the dble pricing was part of a market research done by white guys in a western market research outfit, whatever such companies are called.

[Guest]

Double pricing?

Try triple pricing.

 

Falang tourist area - one price. If a thai enters the area, they generally get the traditional 'thai' price.

 

There is the price for falangs in non-tourist area.

 

There is the price for Thais in Thai areas.

 

 

If I buy something for 1/3 or 1/2 or whatever a falang tourist pays, some on this boards consider what I pay to be wrong for whatever reason. In some cases, I feel some falangs enjoy paying the higher price based on some posting some have made.

 

Why do falangs get charged more:

 

1. In many cases they do not know better.

2. They forget to ask the price ahead of time.

3. Some falangs feel if the price is too low that it is inferior.

4. Some feel everything has to be bargained down. I have seen some Thais sale food at or below cost because the falang kept on insisting on a lower price. Guess what happens when the next falang shows up? The 10 baht Pepsi is now quoted at 20 baht, and hopefully an agreement can be reached at 10 baht.

 

And if a person gets 'ripped off' it is always the Thai persons fault. I can not count the number of times I have gotten better prices then my girl friend can get. I wonder what that is called?

 

Rule of thumb: when in a new area, expect to pay more till you can get used to them and they get used to you. Try getting better prices but acted with a little dignity. Treat them good and they might treat you good.