Pay girl outta the bar (pay out discussion)

[khwaimaisabai]

pattaya127 said:

..... this sounds so fucking complicated!

Hi p127,

People make it complicated but it is in fact very simple. Bars are run to make money for their owners. Income is raised from sales of drinks, bar fines and sometimes the "buy out" charge.

This is the way the bars operate. No one is forced to pay anything. What's all the fuss about?

Khwai

[Guest]

That is true... It is a timeless question like the chicken or the egg. The barowners have their argument and us punters have ours. I am on the fence with this but I have not paid a barfine in eons and don't fucking plan on it anytime soon either...

 

To the original poster... If she really wants to be with you and believes in the longevity of your relationship then she would leave regardless (IMO). If she does INSIST that you pay (again IMO) she wants a fallback which is the buyout. A fall back because she knows, deep down, that this is not going to last or has a great chance of failing and wants some kind of safety net. Whether that is an attestment to your tendencies, hers or just the dynamics of any relationship and/or the barscene itself is up for debate but that is her OUT. If she insists on you paying this fee, that is an attestment to her feeling on the relationship and should preclude any feelings you have about her, she has made her statement...

 

Personally I am not going to pressure any bargirl to do anything like that. Why??? Because she has made a commitment in her life to give up her goods for a price. What makes you think she won't carry that over into a situation where long term she can get you to pay, make money on the transaction and return to the same bar with all rights and priveleges as before? The barowner has made a commitment to make money off of his employees (and the general public)and she has made a comittment to sell herself for profit. So now you, Mr. Punter, are going to all of a sudden change this construct? Fat chance (though I have seen it done personally on one occasion and it has to this day about 2 years later worked out). Me, Id rather pay by the hour, at least I know where I fucking stand...

 

Oneye

[Guest]

>>>And take a place like "Big Dogs" - no gogo, no nudity, no happy hour, expensive sodas if you don't want to drink during the day... and a bar fine of 600 baht.<<<

 

 

... of which the girls get 100 baht.

 

 

anyhow, every bar has different deals with the girls. there are even different deals within one single bar. if girls are not happy with specific deals they can go and work somewhere else who offers another deal.

then there are again certain deals which often the barowners never get to know off (and would frown upon if they would get to know of them) as they are strictly between mamasans or managers and individual bargirls.

you have smaller bars run like a family, bigger bars like an industry, other smaller bars try to fuck over inexperienced staff, etc.

there is no strict industry code, no ISO norm.

 

 

 

>>>Huh? When gogos are selling bottles for 110B that they are paying about 15-20B for wholesale?<<<

 

a bar is basically there to make profit for the owner (or in some cases only there to appear to make profit or a loss or whatever), and profit for the girls (otherwise bar would hardly get any girls working in there). there are vast overheads such as staff salaries, rent, keymoney, teamoney, often substancial investments, and the whole thing is in a very fluctuating greyzone. that has to be taken into account. and if you look at the amount of barowners going bust because they don't know how to calculate, or run a bar professionally then it is rather clear why the prices are as they are.

 

a bar does also give a certain protection to the girls working there. it is rather obvious that life as a freelancer is vastly more dangerous for the girls than as an employed bargirl. not all customers are some nice blokes who just look for company and a vanilla shag, there are also some very sick people around.

 

 

>>>Barfines are scams and just another way to seperate a punter from his money - again.<<<

 

isn't the whole scene there to separate the punter from his money? i mean, redlight scenery is hardly some altruistic form of practising compassion to lonely western males. that may be a mainly buddhist country here, but those ideals do not exactly translate into that particular nightlife here

[Guest]

Quote:

"You nor anyone else would live with a girl who works for me and goes with farangs. The girls do not have boyfriends, farang or Thai - period. Have boyfriend = no job."

 

 

 

 

There are many in the world who would take this as an act of having indentured servents. At the UN scene, there are many who would look at this as part of the women trafficking scene.

 

As for the lame excuse that bear fines, buying out, are needed in order to run a business, then tell me why some bars stay open that do not practice these things? Could it be that some falangs are smart enough not to fall for these scams?

 

By the way, if a girl working at your bar does have a boy friend and you fire her, can she collect unemployment? Can she bring legal action against you for firing her without cause? Can you be arrested for having working conditions that are not normal?

 

I would like to hear your answers?

[Guest]

>>>There are many in the world who would take this as an act of having indentured servents<<<

 

 

hardly. the definition of indentured is "bound by contract, not free". as his employees are free to leave their place of employment, they hardly fall under that definition.

 

 

 

 

>>>At the UN scene, there are many who would look at this as part of the women trafficking scene.<<<

 

again, hardly. they are way too busy to work in the fields of real indenture. of which there unfortunately are plentyful.

 

 

>>>As for the lame excuse that bear fines, buying out, are needed in order to run a business, then tell me why some bars stay open that do not practice these things?<<<

 

because those bars (you mentioned the beergarden in soi 7, thermae etc. ) do not pay salaries to the freelancers. a completely different case.

 

 

>>>By the way, if a girl working at your bar does have a boy friend and you fire her, can she collect unemployment? Can she bring legal action against you for firing her without cause? Can you be arrested for having working conditions that are not normal?<<<

 

the whole redlight business is in the greyzone of legality, so there hardly apply any of those mentioned labour laws here in thailand.

 

you mention always as a 'good' example the freelancer scene. that may be beneficial to a punters wallet (well, under circumstances it might not, given the countless reports of thefts here... ), but it is far more dangerous for the girls than being employed by a bar.

[Guest]

I feel a manager being hired to run a bar in LOS is not really a pimp. He is just managing a pre-exsisting situation. If there is a pimp involved, I would think to have to be the owner (s), who endorse the practice. I guess you can split hairs, but what does it really matter?

 

I'd love to pick up a job being manager of a Thai bar. I would not look upon myself as selling the girls, as they are selling themselves. The bar is simply imposing a fine, for them leaving work early, as most places would do. Well....in fact, they would be fired for walking off the job, in almost any other place.

 

Do you pay the bar to take girl?. No. Girl goes to make her own arraingment with managemet, to leave early. "I go pay bar", means she will go pay to leave early. Of course, in most cases she will want you to pay that for her, but how many times have you done that to the owner/manager of the bar?

 

Pay bar, means to pay her, to be able to leave. How she works that out, is always/at least usually, left open to her, and the bar. Maybe she can leave before 11pm, and maybe she can't. She can tell you that her price to leave, is any amount she wishes.

 

Just another way to look at it, I guess. A true pimp owns his girls/stable, and has complete control over their every move. Her pimp owns her, lock, stock, and barrel. It's diferent in LOS. The girls (farang venue's) are generally not 'owned'. They are free agents, free to do as they wish. That makes it a very different situation, than in most prostitution situations around the world, and which I think, makes LOS as attractive as it is, and what makes it so wildly popular.

 

It is devoid of mafia type influences, in the farang segment at least, so far. Given that, it can be hard to look at bar owners and managers as true pimp types. While they all might be very aware of what is going on, most are not trying to push any girl out the door with anyone they do not want to go with. And that is the difference, I think. And the ultimate attraction of LOS. And what makes it so different from the rest of the world, in a general sense. Given this, you cannot blame the managers from not feeling like pimps. I would suspect most have no little more control over them, than making up their new schedule every week. If that is, in fact, true, I could not see them thinking themselves anymore pimps of these girls, than I could. They are without control of what they do, from an outside sexual aspect. In fact, the usual punter would be the controling force of them (pimp), far more than their manager's at work. To a large degree, anyway.

 

HT

[Guest]

>>>It is devoid of mafia type influences, in the farang segment at least, <<<

 

 

lets say that in the vast majority of bars in that sector the mafia influence is not directed at the girls.

there are some exceptions though, such as persistent rumors about a popular soi cowboy bar famous for it's shows.

and there are other mafias at work who have nothing to do directly with the barowners or managers, but are more tied to the "traditional" agent systhem in the villages.

[Guest]

Hi Fly,

 

>>>there are some exceptions though, such as persistent rumors about a popular soi cowboy bar famous for it's shows.>>>

 

I worded my post very carefully. You have to admit, it is quite rare, given over the whole scene. And especially given to elsewhere.

 

Remember, that I'm talking the farang scene here, also. Not the Thailand prositution scene, in general throughout.

 

HT

[khwaimaisabai]

MightyMouse said:

As for the lame excuse that bear fines, buying out, are needed in order to run a business, then tell me why some bars stay open that do not practice these things?

Hi mm,

One advantage to the punter of the bar fine system is that it gives bar owners an incentive to staff their place with attractive girls. Taking S7BG as an example of a "no bar fine" establishment, one only has to read the reports from Fiery Jack and make the occasional visit one's self to know that such a description cannot be applied to the ladies who frequent the place.

Khwai

[torrenova]

Old Hippie,

 

For sure the girls have lives outside the bar and I know that sometimes they pick up guys from Marine or Marine 2 which they occasionally go to if we close early enough. they may even get picked up waiting at the barbacue cart. All that is fine and totally their business.

 

The conflict comes the next day if the guy wants to keep the girl. He must then come to the bar, have a drink and pay the barfine. The fact that he did not have to pay a barfine the first night is solely because she had left the bar.

 

Of course, there is another potential scenario. He wants to see her again but doesn't want to pay the barfine. He wants to meet her at say 2/3am. Now, this potentially causes me a problem, especially if the guy either pays well or the girl likes him.

 

She may not be interested in talking to other guys that evening when at work, playing games with them and in effect, keeping them in the bar where they buy drinks. That hurts my business.

 

In honesty, the girls I have now are unlikely to do this as they know that the guy will go home soon and they have much more to lose than they will gain from him.

 

As for being naieve about them having boyfriends. Not at all. They are told this and in the past numerous have been sacked for doing just that when it has caused complaints from punters or interrupted their work. If they were able to have Thai boyfriends who we never saw and who never saw or telephoned them when they were at work or with a customer, I wouldn't give a shit. However, we all know how desperate they are for their whisky money don't we. So thats why we have that rule.